Author Topic: This ever happen to you? (Read 9220 times)

draken · « **on:** June 10, 2011, 04:08:52 AM »

Ever set up your drill press to drill the lockbolt holes, double check the alignment with a level but have your lockbolt holes come out cockeyed? Just happened to me!

Who would have believed a level could be right on one way and way off when switched end for end.?

This thing makes a decent square, but it just lost its status as a level.

R.W.D. · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2011, 04:20:21 AM »

I gave up on Stanley tri-squares a long time ago. They make an okay square but a horrible level. I bought a good machinist square 20 years ago and never looked back.

Dave Faletti · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:03:02 AM »

Thats a bummer. I directly check with a small square and the drill bit or a longer rod in its place.

billd · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:28:51 AM »

Stanley for carpenters, Starrett for machinists.

R.W.D. · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2011, 06:26:45 AM »

Probably use my Starret as much for carpentry as metal work these days. Speed Square is for carpenters.

b bogart · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2011, 12:54:45 PM »

Even with carpentry you should always check whatever you are looking at with BOTH sides of the level. I have seen alot of plumb or level installations that ended up not so!

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:03:57 PM »

Yes, it has! And I see the pictures. But I still don't understand how the bubble can be "on" one way and "off" the other.

-Ron

bgf · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:14:24 PM »

I assume that whatever you call the tube with the bubble is installed so that it isn't parallel with the base and that the surface is not level, otherwise, I'm baffled, also.

R.W.D. · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:23:27 PM »

I too have seen bubble levels like this. Many carpenters use a plumb bob instead. I know it wouldn't work for this application. We may have to go back to the old, old style level with the pendulum.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:27:21 PM »

Burton, you keep coming to my rescue. It's so clear now, the "on" picture is NOT level. The true level point is somewhere in the middle of those 2 pictures.

I feel so dumb now.

But the next time I go to buy a level, I'll know how to test it!

-Ron

eagle24 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2011, 05:37:01 PM »

Put the level on it, read the level, flip it around the other way, read it again, if they are not exactly the same the true reading is the exact middle between the two. Another thing to figure in is the amount of runout your drill press has. Unless it is a really high quality drill press it probably has some runout and won't drill a hole perfectly square to the table. I just got a drill guide from David Rase because of this.

R.W.D. · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2011, 06:19:26 PM »

Good points. Your dealing with a drill press not a mill. If your drill press is like mine, bench-top Craftsman, there's a certain amount of runout and wobble you just have to deal with.

rick landes · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2011, 06:41:11 PM »

Are you sure the reversed level is placed exactly the same on the table top?
Test it again to level and then draw a pencil line around base, reverse and recheck.
It may be the table has a cant in it. You know you could level the unit in the drill press vise , put a small rod in the chuck and then draw the rod across the face on the level to check for flatness.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2011, 09:37:19 PM »

Quote

Put the level on it, read the level, flip it around the other way, read it again, if they are not exactly the same the true reading is the exact middle between the two. Another thing to figure in is the amount of runout your drill press has. Unless it is a really high quality drill press it probably has some runout and won't drill a hole perfectly square to the table. I just got a drill guide from David Rase because of this.

The drill press may be a problem but if you are using fairly small bits there is no question that they will drill a curved hole if you don't: clear the chips, use too much force, or they are improperly sharpened.
Dennis

westerner · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2011, 11:16:41 PM »

A cheap level got me in trouble many years ago. Since then I use a quality square or dial indicator to get things where they need to be. Picked up a Forster drill jig at a gun show, cheap, very cheap. The level that came with it was way off.

Joe.

draken · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2011, 11:24:34 PM »

The disgusting part is that I do have a perfectly accurate level. It was out of reach , and that Stanley tool was right there. After all, a level is a level, or so I thought. Like I've always said, you learn something new every day of your life.
Lesson learned! I just wish it hadn't happened on my Grandson's rifle.

Howard · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2011, 12:00:47 AM »

Always make sure that your head is trimmed in with the surface of the table. Next trim the vice in with the table. I don't like using a level myself on any machine doing a machine function. I have gotten in trouble years ago doing that.

brobb · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2011, 03:57:56 AM »

A quick and easy way to check that a drill press table is perpendicular to spindle is to use a piece of wire (coathanger). Bend a short section up, leave a straight length a little less than one half the size of the drill press table and then bend a short section down. Put the short up section in the drill press chuck and tighten. Raise the table so that you just barely touch the section of wire that is bent down. Rotate the chuck by hand and if the table is square the wire will just barely touch all of the way around. If it does not touch at all points adjust the table so that it does. This method does not require that the drill press be level. This is hard to put in words, but is very easy to do or to show to someone. I could of done this several times in the time I have used in writing this description.

black ed · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2011, 04:42:43 AM »

The drill press table need not be level..... It needs to be set square, (90degrees) to your drill bit. It must be square to your drill bit side to side and front to back.
chuck up a piece of rod and attach a mag square and squar up the table....

greybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2011, 05:13:08 AM »

Quote from: Bruce Robb on June 11, 2011, 03:57:56 AM

A quick and easy way to check that a drill press table is perpendicular to spindle is to use a piece of wire (coathanger). Bend a short section up, leave a straight length a little less than one half the size of the drill press table and then bend a short section down. Put the short up section in the drill press chuck and tighten. Raise the table so that you just barely touch the section of wire that is bent down. Rotate the chuck by hand and if the table is square the wire will just barely touch all of the way around. If it does not touch at all points adjust the table so that it does. This method does not require that the drill press be level. This is hard to put in words, but is very easy to do or to show to someone. I could of done this several times in the time I have used in writing this description.
[/quote
Right on Bruce. No costly aparatus needed

Captchee · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »

Quote from: black ed on June 11, 2011, 04:42:43 AM

The drill press table need not be level..... It needs to be set square, (90degrees) to your drill bit. It must be square to your drill bit side to side and front to back.
chuck up a piece of rod and attach a mag square and squar up the table....

spot on with that post . thats why i dont use a level or a square , just a alignment jig for drilling . set the jig to the vice . move the vice tell the pin aligns with the tip of the drill . mark entry and exit locations .
set the pin on the alignment jig to your exist location . start the drill on the entry location . take your time drilling , don’t force the bit and clean cuttings often . That way she wont walk on you and thus will come right out to the point of your alignment jig .
The jig doesn’t have to be anything special . I have even used a 16 penny nail set to my machinists vice

omark · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2011, 04:35:50 AM »

as stated earlier, a table doesnt need to be level, just square with the spindle. as far as accuracy of a level, in artillery we sometimes use a gunners quadrant, which must be very accurate when shooting several miles. that is done with what is called an end for end test. this test was mentioned in an earlier reply. there is a machined surface on the breech of the gun, it is leveled using the gunners quad. then, with out making any adjustments to the quad or tube, the quad is reversed and the reading is compared to the first reading. the difference is divided by two and that is the amount the quad is off. then that can be included in the settings for firing. as said earlier by another earlier reply, this can and should be done before trusting any level. there is such as thing as manufacturing tolerances, and with so much stanley type junk from china,,,,,,,,, oops, getting to political, sorry mark

Fred_Dwyer · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2011, 02:52:29 PM »

I always thought that bubble was referenced to the rule that would be in the square, no matter.
The table can be level and the spindle of the press out of plumb, front/rear & left/right.
A similar trick I've used is a small bit, maybe 1/8 inch, a short stick of 1x something. Drill in a short way, turn off the press, raise the spindle 1/4 inch or so and rotate the spindle. The stick will show high/low spots in relation to the spindle, similar to the wire trick. Tape an appropriate drill bit on the low spot, place a square of plywood on that and make a table that is perpendicular to the spindle. Retry. Move the taped drill bit around till the false table is true.

omark · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2011, 08:31:59 PM »

fred, youre right, the bubble is always at the high point in the glass, or "level". but that doesnt necessarily mean the lines on the bubble are true, or more often than not, the glass is not parallel to the machined surface of the level that is set on what you are checking. thats why you do the "end for end" and split the difference. hope this clears it up.

mark

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Author Topic: This ever happen to you? (Read 9220 times)

R.W.D.

Dave Faletti

billd

R.W.D.

R.W.D.

eagle24

R.W.D.

westerner

brobb

black ed

greybeard

omark

Fred_Dwyer

omark