Cold Cast Nosecap

[Dave W]

Has anyone tried the epoxy and atomized metal (bronze) mixture that was in Fred Stutzenberger's article in the October Muzzleblasts for casting a nosecap?  It is an interesting alternative to investing in the equipment to be able to cast pewter.  I would love to see some color photos of the finished result, if anyone has done it.

DW

[Robby]

Dave, Where is the investment in casting pewter? The first time I did it, I had to invest in pewter only. I used an old measuring cup and a propane torch, cardboard from an old shoe box, and plumbers putty to stop up the cracks. There are plenty of things around any house that can be used in substitution for anything I used. Good preparation saves you a lot of time. I didn't see the article, you probably could do such a job as to fool everyone, but you would always know, its a well formed glob of plastic hanging on the end of your gun.

[jerrywh]

 Fred is a writter more then a gunsmith--- everything he says doesn't always work out just exactly like it is supposed to.

[keweenaw]

Best place to get pewter to cast is at yard sales.  One often sees beer steins and stuff that was popular in the early 70's.  Really cheap.  Any old tin can will do just fine to melt it.

Tom

[Jim Kibler]

Ok, I have to comment.  Cant imagine why anyone would want to use epoxy for a nose cap!  I read the article...  Can't help but to ponder all the great subjects that could be written on...   

[caliber45]

Dave -- Agree 100% with Robby and Snyder. I found my pewter at yardsales (old beer mugs, beat-up bowls, teapots, etc.) Used it for years as a hardner for cast cartridge bullets until I discovered a better use for it (nosecaps). As for "investment," mine consists of toilet paper rolls (OK, OK, if that offends . . .) paper towel rolls and cereal box cardboard. I've used modeling clay to patch the cracks, per advice from this forum, but find it tends to melt and run. Now I'll try Robby's advice on plumber's putty. It's not a big deal to cast pewter. Melts at about the same temperature range as lead -- maybe less. Propane's fine. Keep the melt hot until the last instant before pour. Just make your forms a bit oversize, and then file it down to size -- but be sure to use an old file that's not good for anything else, since the "teeth" will glom up and be difficult to clean. -- paulallen

[Dphariss]

You mean you can't afford a propane torch and a stainless steel ladle from the second hand store?

Dan

[Darkhorse]

An old coleman camp stove works well to initially melt the pewter while your hands are busy doing something else. I like to keep it hot with a propane torch right up to I pour.
There is more than one kind of modeling clay. Can't recall right off the name of the one I use. I bought it at WalMart in the craft department. Came in white about 1" square and about 4" long. This is the stuff designed to be firehardened. The other stuff is basically reusable so it is made with different ingrediants.
Put a chunk of each on a firebrick and heat it with your propane torch. One will melt the other will scorch and get harder. The one that scorches and gets harder is the one you want. Don't worry the melted pewter will not get it hot enough to turn it into a clay pot.

[Dave W]

Thanks for the replies.  Sort of sorry that I brought it up.

...and, yes I can afford as many tools as I want.

Dave

[J.D.]

Thanks for the replies.  Sort of sorry that I brought it up.

Dave

No need to feel sorry about asking any question. This forum is all about discussing the various ideas, excellent and otherwise, that forum members might think of.

No one has learned anything by not asking a question, even silly ones, so ask away.  That's the only way anyone can learn.

[Benedict]

I agree about casting  pewter, it is not hard and is "authentic"

But mainly I wanted to say that I think that the ONLY silly question is the one NOT asked.

Bruce

[Dphariss]

Thanks for the replies.  Sort of sorry that I brought it up.

...and, yes I can afford as many tools as I want.

Dave

Sorry I was kinda short. I was trying to point out that for most people there is no investment in tools for casting pewter since they likely have them already.

Dan

[Only Round]

  Yes, it is quite easy to cast pewter.  However, in this cast you could also "cast" a brass or steel cap.  When I read the article my immediate question was how the brass "casting" would look.  I'm currently working on an ohio style rifle that I was going to cast a pewter nose cap, but I used brass on the entire rest of the rifle and was kind of hesitating just for esthetic reasons.  Now, with a possible opportunity to do a brass "casting" I'm giving it some serious consideration...

[C Wallingford]

  Yes, it is quite easy to cast pewter.  However, in this cast you could also "cast" a brass or steel cap.  When I read the article my immediate question was how the brass "casting" would look.  I'm currently working on an ohio style rifle that I was going to cast a pewter nose cap, but I used brass on the entire rest of the rifle and was kind of hesitating just for esthetic reasons.  Now, with a possible opportunity to do a brass "casting" I'm giving it some serious consideration...

I would think that molten brass would burn the wood.

[Gene Carrell]

I think he is looking to 'cold cast' brass-colored  plastic.

[Only Round]

  As I understand it, it's not pewter/brass/steel "colored" plastic but the epoxy is being used as a bonding material for the "atomized" (whatever that means) metal.  So it sounds to me as if you're getting a mostly metalic nosecap.  This leads me to wonder just how the finished "casting" will file/polish?  That's what makes this sound very interesting- being able to "cast" brass/steel nosecaps.  'Course if the finished product  still looks "plastic-y" then it's all out the window.  I'd like to know just how much this stuff costs but I can't even find it on Brownells website.  Maybe it's a new product & that's why the article includes a phone # to call and ask about price?  Anyway, I'd be willing to give the stuff a try just to see how it turns out.

[Gene Carrell]

Brownells only list three materials that I can find; atomized aluminum, 081-021-004AB; steel, 081-021-104AB; stainless steel, 081-021-204AB. Mix with an epoxy that will flow and it will probably be about 70% epoxy  or greater. AcraGlas can be  finished similar to surrounding wood surfaces, but I think it  will soon look like a plastic  fill. It just will not wear or age the same as the metal it replaces.

[Acer Saccharum]

I think there is a place for epoxy nose caps.....

on plastic stocked guns.



I could not believe that article. It shows that MB is hungry for new material. They accept articles from anyone, so put that in the back of your mind for these long winter months. It's our magazine, and I think they would welcome new material.

[Dphariss]

  As I understand it, it's not pewter/brass/steel "colored" plastic but the epoxy is being used as a bonding material for the "atomized" (whatever that means) metal.  So it sounds to me as if you're getting a mostly metalic nosecap.  This leads me to wonder just how the finished "casting" will file/polish?  That's what makes this sound very interesting- being able to "cast" brass/steel nosecaps.  'Course if the finished product  still looks "plastic-y" then it's all out the window.  I'd like to know just how much this stuff costs but I can't even find it on Brownells website.  Maybe it's a new product & that's why the article includes a phone # to call and ask about price?  Anyway, I'd be willing to give the stuff a try just to see how it turns out.

Adding "atomized metal" to epoxy is usually done to increase its strength/resistance to battering. Its going to polish like epoxy which can be made to kinda look like black horn etc. There must be enough epoxy to surround the metal and hold it so its not going to look like metal.
To me this would be more work than casting one properly.

Dan

[keweenaw]

The Brownell's atomized metals are usually used with their acraglas gel, not the thin epoxy stuff.  I've used the steel in recoil lug bedding but wasn't much concerned about its appearance.  It files about like a mild steel.  Personally I don't think this stuff would look like plastic on a tip if one used a very high ratio of metal to epoxy but I also don't think it would look or age like steel.

As for doing a cap in brass, I still have a couple ancient cans of atomized brass and bronze that were made by a company called U S Bronze.  They are used in applying a bronzed  surface to anything.  You mix the powdered metal with a bronzing liquid - essentally a lacquer - and use it like paint.  My Dad did a metal fireplace with it to make it look like copper.  It was a one off project so it's not like he was an expert in doing it but I will say that it looked more like patinated copper than paint.  I've seen objects bronzed this way by experts that required close attention to tell that they weren't metal.  U S Bronze made the parent material in many tones and shades.  I suspect someone must still make such products that could be used in an epoxy base to cast something.  I'm not sure that anyone has any business doing it on arms in the antique style but only want to point out that we might be surprised at one can do  with alternative techniques.

Tom