Author Topic: Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls  (Read 14855 times)

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2011, 07:43:42 AM »
Don't know what my speed was. I can tell u I wasn't at my best at 95 degrees and a touch of food poisoning. Finally stopped puking, phew. Didn't start to come on till shot 3.

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2011, 06:01:19 PM »
Still shooting 120gr. 2F GOEX?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 06:01:37 PM by Daryl »

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2011, 11:30:07 PM »
yep, patches were beautiful, based on your load, I am gonna try goin up a bit, maybe one notch down also just to play around and see if I upen up or tighten a bit

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2011, 01:48:28 AM »
went up in powder, 130 grains, patch still looks great. this is 15 shots, black dot is over the fowler.  After the fowler it dropped a inch or so then started tracking up and to left, settled in upper left with final 10 shots.  It was windy, not sure what to make of this, will keep tryin.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2011, 02:20:59 AM »
Jeez, sell me that rifle.

Btw I shoot .454 balls (not .457s tried them but .454s best) I'm now up to .018 patching (spit but teflon at longer ranges..) Mucho rounds thru my ol Getz barrel. :)

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2011, 03:04:35 AM »
Holds some promise. I got to weigh the balls for uniformity next. Should I go by volume or weight as far as charge? Right now I am just using an old measure at the range. Will keep playing, then the flinter, then the 451 and then the fun begins, the SLUG!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 03:08:58 AM by Plastikosmd »

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2011, 05:01:56 AM »
When throwing stricken measures, the smaller the diameter of the powder measure, the more accurate the thrown charge will be, charge to charge. Thus consistancyin velocity will be better & theoreticaly, so should accuracy.

Whatever that measure actually throws in weight, is the powder charge you are using.- what an adjustable measure says is not the real charge as most of them lie. Depends on humidity to some extent, which effects the current specific gravity of the powder wich induces weight, up or down as well as the make, lot # and granulation.

I'd measure what that measure throws, then duplicate that in a measure that was no more than 3/8" inside diameter. I wold make certain I threw every charge the same and I'd weigh the balls and segregate them into weight classes- 1gr. apart, then throwall the light ones back into the pot.

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2011, 10:47:33 PM »
so this gets to my question, wouldnt overall weight of the charge be best? (minus other variables such as how much u compress it etc)

anyway, using your data, i went up in charge today 150grains, 5 shots, 100 yards. VERY humid today, gun wanted to rust in front of my eyes.  From what I have read here, humidity will play a role. Not sure if I can duplicate todays best group. 2 holes. Overall still 1" but I either did 4 in 1 and 1 or 3 in 1 and 2 in 1.  The left hole was the most ragged on the backstop so at least a couple went through that hole.  I shot another target after just to make sure the rifle was still on as it was hard to believe they were goin through the same hole. Sad as the two holes were shot number 1 and 2, then they started goin through old holes (3,4,5).  I guess I shouldnt be complaining (.626, .015 teflon, 150g FFg)

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2011, 12:52:41 AM »
I scored ISU, DCRA and BCRA targets and other modern rifle targets for many years.

Those targets certainly look like only 2 holes to me, due to the permanent holes in the backing appearing as a single hole.  What do those holes measure?  When gauging holes for more than 1 bullet, a plug is normally used, unless using a moving backer.  If the bullet diameter plug 'sticks' in the hole by the weight of the plug, then is judged as a single bullet hole. If the gauge falls through the hole, it is gauged as more than 1 projectile has passed. Sometimes the difference cannot be seen by the naked eye, but usually can, especially if more than 2 have been fired through it. Low velocity projectiles make reading single sheet paper targets difficult, especially if poor grade paper is used. With most ML rifles, a bristle board targets shows holes well- at least at close range. Target paper is especially formulated with short fibers, so the holes are not torn badly. The longer the fibers, the worse the tears.

As a single projectile cuts a slightly smaller than bullet sized hole in the material, I assume a ball certainly would, as well.  If a bore sized ball stayed on top of the hole in the backing, I'd definitely say only one projectile passed through that hole, although the ball itself would have been slightly larger than bore size - but how much more?

Offline bgf

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2011, 01:24:38 AM »
Very curious.  I agree with Daryl, I think, it is usually much easier to tell when more than one ball goes through the same hole.  It would make me nervous -- I might put up a large clean backer board (or a clean piece of paper) and make sure it is not throwing a couple of later shots way off target due to bore fouling/cutting/tearing patches, etc, just to be safe. 

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2011, 01:44:48 AM »
 Backer is 4ft x3 ft. It went through, shots 6-11 also printed in same spot. second group was 1.2 inch. Bout the same just more ragged and not as pretty.  3-1 is pretty common with this one, haven't managed 4, tho maybe I did today.  No cut patches as I inspect after every shot. Also excavated the balls for casting later. Usually it is 3 then, 4th off by bit then 5th back in or splits 3 and 4. Don't go by those shoot n see they are like rubber and heal a bit. It is faking you out as the left hole was bigger, when i removed it from the board to take home the tear closed up, you could see that prior to removal. Not sure on the right one tho. The left hole is 1.5x bore on backer.   The right may be at or just over, hard to tell. Not here to defend shooting holes, never been in a competition in my life and probably never will? never say never i guess, but prefer to challenge myself (you can never win!)  Nice to see it is grouping better at a higher charge and better than I expect for a RB. Gettin there. Gettin a new toy or 2 this weekend, stay tuned. you are gonna like these
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 03:56:45 AM by Plastikosmd »

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2011, 04:21:20 AM »
Good round balls are very accurate. If I was to build up a match round ball gun, it would be a larger bore - 16 to 14, I'd think.  I am very excited about the accuracy of my hunting rifle, English style - even though it is loaded and shot only as a hunting rifle.  When I was younger and not injured of shoulder, that rifle possessed the potential to win BR competitions - if 1" for 5 shots would win, that is. Today, I cannot shoot it as well - for more than just a few shots.

My first 3 on Thursday went into 2 1/2", round group off a single bag rest, sitting, shot off my left hand (on bag) at 200yards. The next 4 went into a group of 4", with 3 of them inside 2 1/2".  About then I went sour.

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2011, 05:01:46 AM »
wow! nice shootin for sure

« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:49:12 PM by Daryl »

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2011, 07:39:23 PM »
Hrm is there a forum error here? I only posted the first part of the last post. The rest is someone else?This is true as I was only born in the early 70's! Guessin it is u Daryl. I will put quotes and your name on it, if so. Will also need to see your birth certificate to check your age! Grin
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:43:39 PM by Plastikosmd »

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2011, 07:47:44 PM »
Ooops- sorry- kit the wrong button, I guess - drastic error/error/error

i wondered about weight and how it really helps. It sort of makes sense that a heavier barrel may be more accurate on the surface but I wonder if it really holds true.  Of course in these guns it means less recoil for heavy charges, maybe less movement on a bench but I wonder about the harmonics.  For my centerfire stuff, you are looking for a node at which the bullet will exit the muzzle at the same point each time.  I guess the massive barrels dont really whip that much thus tending towards some improvement in accuracy?  I know the benchrest CF guys are goin for short thick barrels now 20" or less it seems.  (tho there are other reasons to limit weight in these competitions)

Been doing the 20" stuff since the early 70's.  I'm sure the whip of convolutions of a BP barrel are much slower an perhaps futher apart than a modern gun runing almost or even over 60,000 psi.

The heavier (larger in diameter) the barrel the stiffer it will be, and the shorter it is also adds to the stiffness - but how much length is too much in a ML barrel with it's 'slower' nodes?  There would be a LOT of experimentation to do.  The larger the bore, I think the shorter the barrel could be & perhaps the shorter it is, the better even in a ML barrel.

The ML barrel has a large advantage over the modern gun. It is a rare modern rifle that has single didget SD's, let alone single didget spreads. With well loaded ML's with tight combinations, it's a given. Spreads of 5 to 7fps are normal for .58's and larger- with heavy loads more than light ones.

I've found water based lubes, spit in my tests, reduced velocity spreads between shots to fantasticly low numbers, while oils or greases greatly increased spreads - similar to those of modern rifles - over 24fps between high and low shots in a string.

 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 05:28:57 PM by Daryl »

Offline plastikosmd

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2011, 07:58:29 PM »
Lol, well hit that button 1 more time, next paragraph is mine with the question that u nicely answered and gave me much to ponder. I didn't realize we had so much less velocity spread. I need a chrono

Daryl

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Re: gotta go up another size, need .620 balls
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2011, 05:29:32 PM »
Yes - everyone should have one.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 05:38:31 PM by Daryl »