Author Topic: Frustration running HIGH!  (Read 5514 times)

eagle24

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Frustration running HIGH!
« on: August 13, 2011, 06:34:24 PM »
Been working on forging a trigger guard..................waaaay too long.  I had the bow and grip rail brazed together and 80% filed.  Last night I fired up the forge to braze the rear extension to the grip rail.  Complete failure.  Burned the end of the grip rail.  45 minutes of grinding and filing and I got the grip rail off and managed to save the trigger guard bow.  Now, instead of being finished today, I'll be forging a new grip rail and rear extension.  Should have waited till I have a torch to braze with I guess.

The fun is long gone from making this trigger guard, but I refuse to give in.  Standing in front of a forge in August (in the deep south) is not exactly desireable.  I told my wife if I have the "big one" put "kilt by a trigger guard" on my grave marker.

If I ever get this trigger guard done, I will post pics along with a pic of the pile of steel laying beside my forge that didn't make it.  I'm really appreciating the fine forge work so many of you do.

greybeard

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 07:20:51 PM »
One time a friend told me "Smile, things could bs worse"
  So I tried that, and they were . !!!

Offline Ken G

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 07:29:55 PM »
Hang in there Greg.  "Experienced" really means "has made a lot of mistakes"  Your work looks great and I'm sure this trigger guard will look great when finished. 
Cheers,
Ken 
Failure only comes when you stop trying.

eagle24

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 07:36:56 PM »
Hang in there Greg.  "Experienced" really means "has made a lot of mistakes"  Your work looks great and I'm sure this trigger guard will look great when finished. 
Cheers,
Ken 

Thanks for the encouragement Ken!  "has made a lot of mistakes" definantly applies here.  I wasn't joking about the pile of scrapped pieces.  Funny, I did the butt plate first thinking it would be the hardest.  Part of my problem is due to the particular guard I am trying to make.  It's not the easiest TN guard for a first attempt.

Offline heinz

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 07:40:56 PM »
Greg, the last guard I made took 3 passes: first try, extensive mod of first try, and lets start over from scratch.  And I have made many of forged iron guards over the years.  Let me know if you want pics of that misadventure :-)

When you hand forge them you end up with what you want, what works best with the gun.  The road however is far from straight.  
kind regards, heinz

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 08:44:20 PM »
G, are you riveting the parts together with copper rivets? That will hold the parts in alignment under heat.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

eagle24

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 10:00:51 PM »
G, are you riveting the parts together with copper rivets? That will hold the parts in alignment under heat.

I'm riveting them with steel rivets (4d finish nail).  The brazing went well when I brazed the grip rail to the trigger bow.  When I attempted to braze the rear extension to the grip rail I got the grip rail to hot and burned the tail end of it.  I knew it would be a problem because it is a delicate grip rail and it curls down and forward.  Very difficult to position in a forge fire so the braze joint is getting the most heat.  If I turn it over, I am placing the trigger bow in more danger of getting burned.

Offline Habu

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 10:21:46 PM »
Can you braze the second joint indirectly?  By that I mean heat up a big ol' chunk of iron to a cherry heat, then use the hot iron to heat the triggerguard to brazing temp?  Sort of like using an old soldering copper. 

I've done it a couple times when silversoldering, but I don't know if it will work with brazing. 

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 12:46:24 AM »
 Things going any better yet Greg? I Hope so, I have seen that you are doing nice work and I am sure this is aggravating the $#*! out of you. This is not always easy to do, some things that may help -building a fire for the purpose at hand makes a big difference, even more so when brazing with copper due to the higher heat required. You want a good amount of coke in the center of the fire with no voids and surround it by fuel (coal) banked against the sides and layer over the top. It's like building a fire for welding, you want a fire that eats up oxygen, insulates itself and reflects heat back into itself. Also a good coke bed will help support the part to be brazed. If it is not supported, parts can bend and riveted joints can slip under heat. The key is a even burning, clean fire, no hot or cold spots.    
   When your coal on top of the fire has burned a little bit, pull it to the sides some. Make sure your air supply is well covered with coke and you have a good layer between it and your part to be brazed - again, no voids. Set your fluxed guard in the fire and rake coke around it so it is both supported and surrounded. When welding you should wait until the metal has some color in before fluxing , but I have had fine results brazing by wetting the joint with alcohol and sprinkling with borax before any heating of the part.
    Pull the fire partially back over the top, but leave a gap so you can watch your braze joint. If you knock any green coal down into the joint, best to pick it out. From there let the part to soak a while, give a little air if needed to bring the heat back up, but the idea is to allow the part to come up to the heat of the fire rather than force it.  Another way to describe it - you want to bring the FIRE up to a brazing heat then hold it there while the metal catches up. Cranking a lot of air into the fire to speed the process will just blast your part with oxygen, scale it up and increase the likelihood of burning something. Until you get the hang of it just take your time and sneak up on the brazing point.
    After your braze melts, cut off the air and resist the urge to pull the guard out, best to carefully pull the top of the fire back and then leave it sit, allow everything to cool a little and let the braze  solidify. You can safely remove it when it is red.
    Something related -  if you punch a hole in a plate and set it over your fire it will shoot a flame that I have soldered small parts with a couple times (socket worms, rod tips etc) I am not sure if this would work for brazing, one of those things I always want to try and never get around to it. Anybody done that before?      
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 12:49:14 AM by I.Pratt »

eagle24

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 04:28:40 PM »
Thanks for the tips Ian.  I bailed on brazing it in the forge and brazed it with a torch last night.  I may go back to the forge on one in the future, but the torch sure worked well and the end result is exactly the same minus the burned up steel.  I'll post pics when I get it filed up.

IKE

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Re: Frustration running HIGH!
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2011, 05:22:48 PM »
Greg
trigger guards are hard! I have made a few and scrapped more!
Jerry Eitnier
Eitnie Rifles
Iron Mounted Southern Guns