CVA Mountain Rifle Owners?

[frontier gander]

I bought a .54cal cva big bore mountain rifle a while back and am getting it ready for elk season in 9 days!  What kind of patches are you guys using to get the best accuracy? I tried .018 pillow ticking and my first was dead on @ 100 and  the next 2 dropped a great deal and drifted way to the right.  I switched to some Ox-Yoke patches lubed with crisco/murphys oil soap and my 3 shots were perfectly center but measured a 4" group.

I've shot A LOT tighter groups with this rifle but i was using a .015 patch as a buffer and then another .015 to wrap the ball in. I had been hoping to speed up reload time with the single patch but it isnt looking to well for me.

Tried everything from 80gr Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex P  and am currently set up for 90gr RS loads.

Any ideas?

[Candle Snuffer]

I've got an old CVA Mountain Rifle that was made at least 30 years ago.  It's a .50
caliber with 1 in 66 twist, .008 depth rifling.  I never fed it Pyrodex, only Goex and Elephant in 3fg.  My fifty liked 70 grains of the 3f with a .018 wonder lubed patch along with a .495 ball for best accuracy at 100 yards.

Now I know this isn't what you're looking for since you have a .54,,, but my question is,,, is your CVA Mountain Rifle an older one, or one of the last "run" ones that was made maybe 5 to 8 years ago or there about?  Do you know the twist and depth of rifling?  Can you get Goex?  Are you using or have you tried the .535 round ball, and experimented with some different patch lubes? 

Somewhere along the line you will hit on the right combination, but frankly I wouldn't bulk at a 4" group from 100 yards for hunting purposes as long as that 4" group is consistent from that range. 

[frontier gander]

i know that cva goes by the last 2 digits in the serial # but mine says 37 and i know she aint that old!  It had a curly maple stock so that tells me its deff. not the new model as the new ones were beech stocks.

with 70gr RS my first 2 shots at clipping while the 3rd is about an inch and a half low, but this is with the double .015 patch set up that i am currently out of. I was told it was to light of a load for elk at 100 yards so i opted for the heavier charge but then ran into the current patch problem.

I have to make a run into town and plan on picking up some .015 patches (Should they have them!)  and some powder.  Could use some #11s but they havent been locked for 2 years now 

.535 ball would be super hard to load with the current .018 patch and .020 patch.

 If i were to wash my pillow ticking sheet first and run it in the dryer, would this help soften the material so its not stiff?

I normally buy patches but with current prices, that $20 .530 ball mold and big sheet of pillow ticking were to good to pass up.

I am thinking of ordering some patches from TOTW but what is better: Oiled cotton or wonderlube cotton patches?

[wwpete52]

My son has two of them.  The story is that the older USA made CVA Mountain Rifle barrels were made by Douglas. 

[Candle Snuffer]

My son has two of them.  The story is that the older USA made CVA Mountain Rifle barrels were made by Douglas. 

That's what I understand as well, and my rifle barrel is stamped; Made In USA, and it also carries a maple stock.

I also have other Douglas barrels and the one thing I've learned in using them, both in .45, and .50 caliber, they like a tight patch and ball combination.  This has been my experience.

As for 70 grains of Pyrodex,,, it is my understanding that this is the equivelent to 90 grains of black powder.  That equates to about 470 ft. lbs. at 100 yards.  That should
be adequate for elk in that range and under.  If you feel you need to get up to 500 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, try 80 grains of the Pyrodex with this equaling 100 grains of black powder and 500 and change ft. lbs of energy at 100 yards.

Just some suggestions.  Right now by using 90 grains of Pyrodex you're producing about 540 ft. lbs at 100 yards.  That's about 110 grains of black powder.

Which ever you decide, I still think much is going to rely on a good tight fitting patch and ball combo in that Douglas barrel.  You can always reload with a looser fitting combo after your shot, but personally I'd stay with the tight combo and spend the few extra seconds it takes to load it.

Good luck!

[frontier gander]

mine doesnt have the Douglas barrel, its marked made in spain. 

i found 500 pre-oiled patches for only $13 at the possibles shop so i may bite on those and give them  a try.

[Daryl]

I believe this shooter is using 90gr. stricken measure using a BP measure, not a true 90gr. of Pyro, which would be equivalent to the heavier BP .charge. As-is, this 90gr. stricken measure is about equal to 90gr. of 2f GOEX.  Of course, if indeed the shooter is using a full 90gr. of Pyrodex, it is equivelent to the heavier BP charge and a descent one at that.

 If the barrel is properly crowned it is an easy matter to seat a .535" ball with a .018" to .020" patch.  All cloth bought in bulk by the yard should be washed once or twice to remove the sizing.  This will soften the cloth as well as make it hold lube better.

 4" at 100 yards is descent shooting for a produciton rifle with open iron sights off bags.

[James Rogers]

I have a friend who has recently bought one of these guns minus a barrel wedge. Does anyone sell a ready made wedge to fit these guns?

[Candle Snuffer]

I have a friend who has recently bought one of these guns minus a barrel wedge. Does anyone sell a ready made wedge to fit these guns?

You could probably get one from any of the muzzle loading suppliers like Track of the Wolf, MuzzleLoader Builders Supply...
 
They really aren't that hard to make.  If a replacement wedge is not available just order and oversized wedge and work it down with files.

Good reminder Darly, I had forgotten there is a Pyrodex measure on the market for that equates the charge.

A person could do a penetration test.  Get 4 pieces of 1x Oak - screw them together - set it at 100 yards and just see what pentration the ball gets from each charge from that range.  One solid piece of Oak would be better.  This may put a persons mind at easy with the results of testing the loads.  Just an idea.

[frontier gander]

90gr by volume.  Triple 7 is the powder thats 15% hotter than pyro/bp. And i hate that stuff.

[Daryl]

None of the BP substitutes are very good for the bore.  As a matter of fact, they are hard on the bore due to the chemicals left after being fired.  these are practically impossible to clean out due to their nature.

There are some very knowledgable people on this forum who have expert knowledge about Pyro and & T7 and have warned about it here in the past.

 Use real BP is possible.  It's more accurate and safer for your barrel. It's also easily clean with plane old clear cold water.

[Wyoming Mike]

My first question would be how old is the Pyrodex?  Synthetic powders tend to deteriorate over time after the package is opened.  That could be one problem.

The other question I would ask is what do your patches look like?  Are you getting burn through or cutting?

I shoot a .53 that would burn out the .018 Ox Yoke ticking patches with an 80 grain hunting load and .520 ball.  I dropped to a .515 ball and a .024 patch and the flyers went away.  I also got the best consitancy with KIK 2F black powder.

[frontier gander]

Maybe a month old at the most. I tend to go through powder very quickly.  BP is hard to get here, an 2 hour drive so i dont get to shoot my flinters a whole lot.

I've been shooting pyrodex for a good number of years and its been the most consistent for me and so i like to stick with it in the sidelocks. Even have pyrodex P shoot really well in the flintlock! 

I'll see what the store in town has today and work up a load as soon as i get back home.

[BrownBear]

I don't have any worries about the subs.  I'm in a remote location and you have to move heaven and earth to get black, but you can walk into 4 different stores and buy a variety of subs.  I get more consisent ignition with the black late in strings at the range without extra cleaning measures, but that's not a factor with a well-tuned setup for hunts.  I'll shoot black when I can get it, but I won't quit shooting because the black runs out.

With that spout behind me, I've got to make an observation about your experiences.  I'd be downright pleased with 4" groups and a combo that loaded easily and performed reliably.  If you have to complicate your loading procedures in order to get tighter groups, that is certainly justified for range sessions and matches.  But hunting?  Nah.  Keep it simple.

[frontier gander]

100 yards with one .015 patch as a buffer and then my normal .015 patched ball. This is what the rifles does with 70gr RS. I just hate having to double patch!


80gr loaded the same way,the highest shot was me aiming a bit higher,


110gr shoots even tighter but recoil off hand or shooting sticks gives you that blood taste in your mouth.

I may also order some .015 pillow ticking along with the 500 package of cotton patches.

[chapmans]

    I have a CVA Big Bore in .58 although I never hunted elk, the rifle has taken 30 or 40 whitetails. I always sighted the gun in with a clean cold barrel, it's a pain to do but I thoughly clean between shots and let the barrel cool off so the shot is just as it will be on my first shot at game. When I am satisfied I shoot one shot dirty to see where it hits in case I need a backup shot, it has only happened once in close to 30 years of using it.  I load it for hunting  with .570 rb,  90 gr of 2f Swiss with drill cloth patch and Hodgdens Spit patch for lube, I load my loading block with .565 for easier loading in the field. I have run out of the Hodgdens lube and I don't think they make it anymore, I have some wonder lube that I may have to resort to.
   Steve C.

[frontier gander]

Shes ready! I was able to pick up 200 prelubed .015 patches, loaded up 90gr RS and a double .015 patches and homecast .530 round ball.  Its shooting 2" high @ 100 yards and center. I didnt get to check the groups due to the 15-20mph wind gusts  but its doing excellent now.

[BuffaloGun]

I tried Triple 7 in teh CVAs I use for Boy Scout training and found they seem to habe more barrel wear and rust issues than Schutzen or Goex.
Stick to the real stuff.