stabbed when least expecting it....

[Acer Saccharum]

In looking over an old gun, I am slapped upside the head...again: You never know what you will find if you keep an open mind.

Many know me as a proponent of using a parting tool to define my relief carving. This method has allowed me much freedom to change my design slightly, to go at the carving without worrying about being 'locked in', as stabbing certainly does.

My gripe about stabbing: Once a line has been stabbed into the wood, the design is fixed. You cannot erase this line, you can only remove wood down to the depth of the stab to get rid of it. This would be fatal to the look of your rifle, as you would have 'sunken' areas where stabbed line were removed.

Included is a photo from a German 'wender' or swivel breech gun. This has seen much work over the years. At some point it appears to have the tang extended and the relief carving scrubbed off during that work. What appears after the carving has been scrubbed nearly flush, are the stab lines of the original carving. The stab lines are still very much in evidence.



The pro's of stabbing: If I know the design I will use, have used it several times on different guns, I will certainly consider stabbing the design in. It would be the most efficient way to do this.

If I am going to try out a new design, I will probably use a parting tool to develop the pattern as I go. It's hard to get old dogs to change their ways.

T

[Little Brother]

What about the best of both worlds?  Use the parting tool to do all of the definition work and once the design is finalized, go around and slightly stab in.  I think I read something similar on this site a long time ago.  Stabbing in around the design will create a very nice shadow effect around the carving when stained, making a very shallow carving appear to stand out more.

I'm certainly not professing to be a master carver who has tried all the different methods, just sharing a thought.

Ben

[rich pierce]

Look at the molding around the skirt of the entry thimble of the "tulip rifle", a real honest to goodness "second third of the 18th century" colonial stocked rifle.  It looks like this guy used an exacto knife- and slipped a time or two.  Must have been the hard cider.

[Acer Saccharum]

What about the best of both worlds?  Use the parting tool to do all of the definition work and once the design is finalized, go around and slightly stab in.  I think I read something similar on this site a long time ago.  Stabbing in around the design will create a very nice shadow effect around the carving when stained, making a very shallow carving appear to stand out more.

I'm certainly not professing to be a master carver who has tried all the different methods, just sharing a thought.

Ben

Many, many ways to skin the same cat; there is no one 'right way', in my opinion, tho' you will find those who disagree with me.

I do think a combination of tools and techniques will yield great results. But when I look at the picture of the original..... I have come to believe he may have stabbed the entire design in. Just sayin'. But that doesn't mean he was right.

Tom

[Little Brother]

Yes, I agree it looks like he stabbed it in.  Pretty interesting stuff, thanks for showing.

Ben

[Lucky R A]

       Tom,  I use my V tool to initially set in my pattern, chasing it with a hammer for the most part.  I pretty  much treat the little V tool as an engraving chisel.  I then come back with a very sharp pointed chip carving knife and go around the edges slightly undercutting them.  When I come to curves, volutes etc. I will use the the appropriate gouge to "true up the radius and again slightly undercut it.  I do all this before I start grounding.  The slightly deeper cut of the knife or the gouge acts as a chip stop and allows you to finish right up to the edge of a carving design.  I do almost all my grounding with flat chisels.  When I am done grounding there is little background cleaning needed. As you said, I will agree a combination of techniques seems to work well--and apparently did for centuries...

Ron

[Stophel]

Some German guns were obviously carved with V tools.  Some appear stabbed or knifed in. Often the lines are pretty fine.  Also, many times carving elements are very finely shaded...apparently with a graver!!!  Could simply be little knife cuts.  Hard for me to tell, and I haven't experimented with it myself to see how it might be done.  I think some of the Bethlehem/Christians' Spring guns exhibit this as well...

[rick landes]

I am not too much of a fan of stabbing in a design if the depth is below what the finished surface will be. I think of it a nothing more than an invitation to a chip out, esp. in a highly figured are that is somewhat brittle already by nature.

Acer: Your title threw me I was afraid for your fingers thinking of a serious cut...glad to hear it was just a mental versus a metal expectation...

[Acer Saccharum]

Acer: Your title threw me ....

I like throwing titles around. It really draws the crowds.

I am not a fan of stabbing, but I acknowledge the practicality of the technique. I will have to give it a go one of these days!

Rick's concern is one I share: chipping out of material on the wrong side of the stab.  Hasluck's manual on woodcarving (Dover Publications) talks about removing wood almost to where the stab line will be. Stab AFTER the waste wood is removed, and the wood will chip out in that direction, instead of the wood you are saving for relief carving.

Tom

[Bill-52]

Very helpful topic and responses.  I understand the pros and cons of stabbing versus parting tool with respect to the carving discussed here -- am looking forward to experimenting with both.  But what about carving a straight line, like forearm molding?

Bill

[rich pierce]

A forearm molding is often done using a tool that is shaped like a molding plane blade, called a scratch stock.

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I know this isn't the place, but I tried to send you a private message regarding a safety issue. I might have goofed on the message thing.

Can you send one to me?