Screw Slot alignment

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

In "Recreating the American Longrifle" Alexander mentions aligning screw slots. I just went over many of the photos of rifles made by well know makers that I have saved, to see how they did it. In most of these rifles the screw slots are all mixed up. That doesn't bother me as most of my rifles are also that way.

My questions are: Does anyone purposely try to align screw slots? Is it important in making a better rifle or is it just being anal? If it is a good thing is there a simple way to do it?

I can align them some of the time but mostly it's by accident. Do you have to count turns or make a counter sink deeper? don't know.

[Jim Kibler]

This is another thing that has been thoroughly debated before.  I think you will find information if you search the archives.  Here's my thoughts...  Screws on most original rifles were not aligned.  I have seen a couple Eister boxes were the screws were aligned.  I'm sure there are a handful of other examples.  In short, do what pleases you.  Either approach is fine in my view.  Yes, adjusting countersink depth  can help to align as well as trying different screws.  Not all slots are cut in the same orientation relative to the threads.  If making your own screws you can of course cut the slot last and locate it where you like.

[alyce-james]

In all my builds the screw slot alignment is not a concern. In all the years building only one client has requested the screw slots align with each other in harmony. To me alignment of slots is one of personal judgement. AJ

[DutchGramps]

My cabinet-making grandfather always aligned screws "facing North"; he had the box with screws beside him, and patiently tried them out until they all fitted in the right direction, even the non-visible ones, and he has put that  aberration in my genes.
But I concur that a rifle is not a piece of furniture...

[Acer Saccharum]

High grade English double rifles and shotguns, Italian shotguns all seem to align the screw slots.  It's a sign of quality.

When did this become fashion? I don't know. Much original  early American work does not seem to have the screw slots aligned. But once a gun is dis- and re-assembled, the wood has shrunken after 200 yrs, it's hard to tell if the original maker aligned his slots.

If I were making an 1810 Jacob Kuntz rifle, I'd certainly align the slots everywhere.

I would not align slots on a Christian's Spring or Rev War period gun.

As Gramps points out, it could be a family trait, carried down through generations, or even a cultural idiom.

Just thinkin out loud.

Tom

[FRJ]

I have always heard that aligned screw slots are a sign of quality and as stated earlier high end double rifles and shotguns usually have them. I like it and it really isn't that hard to do so I do it on items that I really like. FRJ

[Glenn]

High grade English double rifles and shotguns, Italian shotguns all seem to align the screw slots.  It's a sign of quality.  Tom 

I have to agree with you on quality and Euro craftsmanship.  I have a SXS Gorasabel 16 gauge that I brought back from Europe when I finished my enlistment.  Gorasabel = Spain.  It is engraved and all the screws are not only aligned, but they are also incorporated, or "hidden" rather in the engraving.  Absolutely remarkable.

I think it probably has no increase of function whatsoever if the screws are all aligned, but if aligned it would be impossible for the harshest critics to say you didn't pay enough attention to detail. 

[James Rogers]

Interesting to note that most of the guns in Keith Neal's collection did not have aligned screws until they hit the Christie's and Bonham's auction catalogs.

As Mr. Kibler stated prior, making your own and cutting the slots in later part of the build is probably the easiest.

[kutter]

I do it as a habit after being paid to do so in the course of restoring and repairing older US and European cartridge firearms for many years.
You could almost make a living by just repairing the damaged screws on otherwise nice pieces.
Nearly all of the mid grade and higher had qualified slots.
Our Parker, LC Smith, Fox etc shotguns had them on even on the lowest of grades.
So too the European made shotguns and rifles.
Most US (repeating) rifle makers usually didn't see fit to time the screw slots for some reason.

I think buyers of 'quality' have come to expect it (timed screw slots). Wether it is historically correct or not, they like to see it.
(Least their buddy point out the poor craftsmanship when showing his prize piece around at the next club meeting.)

You guys know more than I'll ever have time to think about learning about original L/R makers,,but my guess is that they thought little of screw slots lining up on most builds.
The occasional 'extra finish' piece would call for such touches,,but the average gun built on speculation to sell to a local in the course of making a meager living,,I don't think so.

[Mark Elliott]

Personally,  If I can just turn the screw to align it lengthwise, I will.   Otherwise, it stops where is it flush and snug.    I used to try to align the screws, but it does not seem to be the norm on original American longrifles nor on any of the original English guns on which I have worked.   Although,  I am not sure that really says much about how they came from the gunmaker.   After all,   perfectly aligned screws do not stay that way after they have been removed and replaced a couple of times.    So.... I would say, do what ever you want, but I don't feel that I need to align them.   

[greybeard]

I align screws on the tang bolt north & south. Also on the toe plate, trigger guard rear extention if it is not pinned, and the trigger plate rear screw. Lock bolts reasonably close but I wont break a screw driver doing it.. P box random but I strive to have none east west. If all screws on the P box are all north south, to my eye they look false. Of course escution screws on a Hawken must be north south .
  Jest my humble opinion for what it's worth and it's how I do it.
     Cheers     Bob

[T*O*F]

High grade English double rifles and shotguns, Italian shotguns all seem to align the screw slots.  It's a sign of quality.

Here is a set of English screws.  They are much different than the screws we use.  Each is purpose-built for its intended usage.  Some fit into a tapered hole, some need a pilot hole cut with a gimlet, and some fit into straight holes.  They have a different taper on the head than common wood screws.  I had to buy a different set of countersinks for them.  We are used to installing a screw and filing it flush.  All of these go into a counterbore with a countersink at the bottom.  The heads are purposely tall.  After the gun is fabricated, part of the head is cut off and the screws are timed by making new slots in them.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Where do you get English screws?

[Stophel]

I HAVE to have my tang screw and buttplate screws aligned.  Not hard to do either, so why not.

The lock screws, however, tighten up wherever they happen to stop.   

[T*O*F]

Where do you get English screws?

You don't......he's dead.  You would have to have a set custom made by a machinist who could copy an existing set.

[rsells]

I align my screws on my rifles.  It is a personal choice and not the norm with the type of original rifles I like to make.  I just go through my screws to get the combination that will index to the right direction.  If I can't get one to line up exactly as I want, I will use the countersink tool to bring the closest to the correct fit to the index I want.
                                                                                     Roger