Inletting the barrel in a precarved. First Build.

[Eric Smith]

I have a precarved Dickert stock but the barrel doesn't come near to fitting in the precarved channel. What is  the best method to make it fit? Should I shave it in with a chisel, sure a wood file/ What will yield the best result? By the way, I just wanted to say what a great site this is and how much I appreciate all the help. This is a great community.

[Bill of the 45th]

Rawhide welcome, since it's a pre carved, you need to start with the lock first, then work on the barrel.  Most use use chisels, knives, and scrapers to inlet the barrel.  If you don't have one of the building books, or even two, you should get them, or some of the building dvd's might help you.  The lock needs to be fit first so you can determine the barrel touchhole in relation to the pan, or in percussion the lock to the drum.

Bill

[Larry Luck]

Is the lock mortise inlet?  If not, I'd consider getting the barrel in first.

If it is parallel sided, using a section of barrel 1/16 undersized with some sandpaper wrapped around it can increase the channel in manageable steps.  With a tapered and flared barrel, I'd be left with candle soot and chisels to get it inlet.  Others may have better insights.

I've only completed 2 rifles, and one of those was a precarve with a parallel barrel.  So take this for what its worth.

Good luck,

Larry Luck

[Eric Smith]

Its a straight barrel.

[Long Ears]

There are several things at play here. We need to know if your lock is pre inlet. Everything stems off of the Flash Hole location. That means if the lock is inlet then you may need to move the barrel back to get the flashhole liner in front of the breech plug. If the lock is not inlet then you can fit the barrel and breech and locate the lock where needed. I use scrapers and sanding blocks to fine tune the barrel fit. Good luck and go slow. Bob

[Eric Smith]

The lock is also preinlet, not perfect but I think I can deal with it.

[bob in the woods]

If the lock is inlet, figure out where the pan will be in relation to the barrel inlet/breachplug face. You may need to move the barrel back in order to not have the touch hole interfering with the plug .

[B Shipman]

Been there and done that. Not all barrels of a specified width are exacly the same. First inlet the barrel. It's close. Use chisels. Start at the top. Work to the bottom using blacking.

Do not inlet the breech and tang at this time.

Inlet the lock.

How does the center of the pan line up with the end of the breech plug.  How long is the breech plug.
You want the flash hole at the base of the plug. But if you use a vent liner, the base of the liner which is 1/4 in. at minimum, is at the base of the  plug and the vent will be 1/8th in. forward.
The plug should be a good 1/2 in. 4 solid threads at least with a well bottomed plug will do. You may want to shorten the plug. Having done this , you may still move the barrel back until you get the desired result.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

If this is your first build you will also want to check out Mike Brooks' online tutorial.  I go to it about as often as I go to Peter Alexander's book.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/tutorials/brooks/Brooks1.html
Good luck.

Coryjoe

[Eric Smith]

The precarved barrel channel is octagon just like the barrel, but the barrel doesn't fall in right. Too tight. Needs enlarging. Would you use a chisel for that or try to file the wood out a little more. How do you do it on a too tight precarve. And who is the best supplier of precarves stocks.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

How far off is it??  Most would use scrapers at this point.  Shave it down some, test it, shave some more. 

In my opinion the best supplier of stocks is Knob Mountain muzzleloaders. 

Coryjoe

[Eric Smith]

Any particular kind of scrapper?  Yes, I'm that green.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Rawhide,

Thats where those books will come into play.  I don't want to be bossy but get one of those before you proceed.  I am just finishing my first build, and they helped a lot. 

Anyway, you can make scapers by customizing cabinet scrapers or make a scraper from a file or hand saw blade material.  Shape them to fit the shape of the barrel.  Then go from there.  Okieboy did a great tutorial on building a chunkgun, you will be able to find it on here.  He showed how he customizes his scrapers.  In Peter Alexander's book (my favorite) he made one out of a bent file, that way he had a handle. 

Coryjoe

[FRJ]

I don't know if this is correct but its what I did. Since my barrel had to be draw filed I did that before I started the inlet on my precarved stock. Than with the new dimensions I was able to inlet the stock and know it will be a perfect fit. FRJ

[Eric Smith]

Having measured the flats on a 13/16th barrel, ( looked more like 7/8s to me, but what do I know?), I have determined to buy a 3/8s dog leg chisel to help cut the octagon flats of the barrel inlet. That and a square file should help a lot. What do you think?

[Stone River]

Hey Eric,
     These guys are absolutely right.  Do the lock 1st.  I'm working on my 1st build as well and asked the same question.  I was told to stop working on inleting the barrel and do a stripped lock plate 1st.  Inlet the lock an than see if you have to move the barrel back any to get the vent in the correct position.  As for fitting the barrel in the channel, Dr. Tim was kind enough to post a link to Brownells for an octagon scraper which would probably work great.  I just used a chisel and scraped, scraped the channel.  It was a pain to take the barrel in an out 50+ times, but that is apparently the name of the game.  Go slow and just take shavings off and re-blacken and go again.  Take your time.  As everyone says, it is easy to take wood off, but hard to put it back on.

sr

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Use a scraper on the barrel channel, it can't be that far off. With a chisel you're likely to take to much off. Scrape a little at a time and try the barrel, a little goes a long way. I would also get the barrel in without the breech plug, then do the lock. Since the barrel and the lock are already inlet somewhat you need to just get them in. Since it is a straight barrel you have the option to move it back some any time before you add the lugs, if the breech plug turns out to be a problem.

For a scraper an octogon scraper would be great but expensive, you can make one exactly to size from a spade drill bit with a little grinding. I have a small bent chisel that I use for a scraper really takes the wood down well but gradual.

A book that will really help now and in future builds is   http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=4&subId=38&styleId=137&partNum=BOOK-RAL
 
My final bit of advice is take it very slow, do not expect things to happen fast, and measure very frequently, if you havent't got a caliper get one fast , one of the most used tools.
I hope some of this helps.

[Vomitus]

A question. If Eric's barrel is still rough on the outside,wouldn't it be wise to draw file the flats before inletting it(the barrel) into the said wood?
  I understand that he is struggling now with a tight fit and that's good.How tight,I don't know but if the barrel is rough finished,this may also add to the overall fit of his barrel to the pre-inlet stock? I like Bill Shipman's explanation on pre-carves. Eric,take a look at Bill's web site and check out his metal to wood fit.Also check out his barrels height above the wood on the fore end.None have the "buried" look.

[Eric Smith]

I did some fileing on the outside flat of the inlet and the barrel began to fit a little better. Still wouldn't slide all the way down, but I put some C clamps on it front and back and it sellted in a lot better. Actually looks about 95 % at the muzzle. Going to let it set and conform the wood for a few days, maybe longer.

[Long John]

Eric,

Take a used, 6 inch mill bastard file that is too dull for much of anything.  Grind the end to a flat-side chisel edge, just like a common wood chisel.  Next gring the edges down so that the chisel edge is the same width as your barrel flat and the ground edge angles in at the same angle as the octagon sides.

Once that is done heat the end to the file up bright red in a MAPP gas torch and bend the file (while hot) to about 120 degrees - short of a right angle - and immediately quench in light oil.  Hone the chisel edge razor sharp and strop the edge.  Now you have a barrel channel scraper!  You apply the sharp edge to the wood and pull the scraper towards you.  If it is sharp it will scrape off a thin shaving of wood a couple of thousandths thick.  Using long even strokes gently wident the barrel channel a little on each side taking care to keep the barrel channel wall vertical.  With the help of some soot on the barrel you will find where the fit is too tight and where it is OK.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Don Getz]

For all of those that feel you have to inlet the lock first, my question is.....how do you know how deep to inlet it?  If you
have a stock with a barrel inlet, I would hope that you ordered this stock for the size barrel that you have...13/16", 7/8",
15/16", etc.     If you ordered the stock from a reputable dealer it should be fairly close to the barrel size.  If it isn't close
I would return it.   You should be able to get it fitting the inlet by scraping, and I would only be concerned with the side
flats...............Don

[Captchee]

 Good morning .
Don .
 The issue is  that   a lot of times folks pay “for some odd reason” the price to have  the lock inlet done on a pre carve .
 When  they do that ,  obviously the lock  position has been defined .
However . What happens  a very large % of the time is that the front of the breech ends up falling forward of the pan if they trust the barrel inlet  . Which  if they are following one of the building books ,  that’s what they have been instructed to do . However they do not have the experience to realize that  the books are based off of building from a plank . Thus everything builds in a set order  .
 They often just don’t  figure out that having the lock inlet before the barrel is in its final placement, has disrupted that order .
 But anyway 
 Not a big issue with a strait barrel as long as it gets caught prior to inletting the tang .
 But what happens is you have to  now let the lock define where the barrel has to be vs. the barrel defining the lock position .

 It should be noted that you don’t have to  fully inlet the lock .  Just start the lock plate . Now the barrel can be set to where its need and then the lock plate can be taken down to it final  position .

 The thing IMO that would stop this issue is if we could get folks to NOT waste their money on paying  to have the lock  inlet .  it’s a waste of money as they are seldom inlet correctly  or in the right location  because none of the inletting is complete .
 The whole subject of paying these inletting fee’s makes me pull my hair out . Basically your paying good money  for  nothing more then a rough hog out  for the inside of the lock. Not to mention that a lot of times its not even to the proper depth . Your then left with the actual inlet that  is going to mater the most . IE the lock plate   fit  and its resulting shelf .
while at the same time  having to  deepen  the inletting that was already paid for   

Add into that  you now complicate things   because you have to fit the barrel position  to the lock position .
 None of the above would be an issue  if the lock inlet wasn’t started  OR if these companies would actually take the time to do what  the customer is paying them to do.

Take Eric . Right now he is  concerned with his barrel fitting properly .
 I would be willing to bet  his lock isn’t even close to  fitting the inlet . So he is going to spend time getting the barrel right . Then go  try and fit his lock . Which wont fit either. So he then works the lock into place based on the pre-carves  lock inletting . .  I have no doubt he will get that worked through  only to find that his flash hole is 3/8 of an inch behind the breech face . Thus his barrel has to  slide back .

Im sorry I see im rambling .
 its a peeev of mine , sorry

[The other DWS]

one of my best scrapers is one I made from an old high quality steel tuckpointing trowel.  One of the long narrow square sided ones.

I filed and snapped the long blade off leaving about an inch and a half and then ground a very low angle fine chisel edge.  Then I squared off the back of the shank (call it the "heel") and than ground a very slight reverse angle on it.  I can push forward with the chisel edge and make very fine cuts on flats. and drag it backwards as a scraper.  The key to it was very careful grinding using my bare hands so as to never let the steel get hot and de temper it.  took a bunch of time to get it shaped and sharpened proper but it's one of my favorite socking tools now