Author Topic: How to determine the correct size ball for unmarked comtemporary flintlock....  (Read 16458 times)

sirdutch

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Hello,

I'm still new to this sight and have only recently bought a contemporary flintlock. I'm not sure where on this forum to ask a question on what size ball to use with  my muzzle loader. My rifle is not marked as to caliber. A 44 cal ball ( that I use with a 1860 Army Colt ) that measures .451 just fits in the bore with almost no pressure with my finger. As I need to use a lubed patch when loading, how much smaller of a ball should I use? Should the ball it be loose enough to roll down the barrel if I insert it without a patch? I know it's a dumb question that only a green horn would ask but I want to use the right size ball. I'm looking forward to using a flintlock for the first time.

Any help or direction to the appropriate spot on this forum would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sirdutch

P.S. If you search under sirdutch you will see my pics on the rifle. Any comments would be appreciated. Great site by the way. I hope to join up with the Big Horn Mountain Men of Orange County, California and go on a rendezvous myself in the future. I can't wait.

roundball

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Any help............would be appreciated.

Ideally, measuring the bore diameter from land-to-land using a dial caliper is the way I'd go.
And if you don't have one, once you buy one you'll find you'll use it for other things like checking the thickness of patch material, checking the diameter variance that may exist in a batch of round balls, etc.

My "guess" is you have a .45cal, and one good rule of thumb as a starting point is to use a .010" under bore size ball (.440") with an .018" patch...(patch material compresses)...and you can later tweak ball and patch from there if you want to as you get deeper into the hobby and experiment with things.  
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 03:42:24 PM by roundball »

BrownBear

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.010" undersize is my golden rule (along with a .018 patch), too, whether I'm coming from the caliber stamped on the barrel or measuring. 

There's enough variation between manufacturers of the same caliber barrels that measuring is a good idea, but I'm pretty easily brainwashed by what's been stamped on the barrel- I.e., I'll start with .490 in 50 cal, .530 in 54 cal, .570 in 58 cal and .610 in 62 cal.  I have to adjust that too often to dash out and buy a ball mold along with a new barrel, so I just buy a box or two of balls to confirm.  Some barrels prefer other combos of larger/smaller balls and thicker/thinner patches for .010 under/.018 patch to be an absolute, even if it's a reasonable place to start.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Finding the right ball diameter and patch material (both type material and thickness) for a particular rifle is an exercise in trial and error (maybe a better term would be methodology and careful record keeping).  From what you said about the 451 ball, your rifle is likely a 45 caliber.  The usual ball sizes used in a 45 are .440, .445,  or maybe (but not as likely) even .437.    I'd start with .440 and an assortment of pre-lubed patches 0.015 and .020 thickness.  You're looking for a combination of patch and ball that isn't a pain in the rump to load, that gives acceptable accuracy.   Work off a rest at first so you're evaluating the gun's performance and not your ability to hold steady, and try to find a load that puts the holes into a tight group.   Factors like width, shape and depth of the grooves will affect patch choice,   and recovering shot patches to look for signs of burn through or cutting will tell you something about the suitability of a particular patching material in your gun.

A good magazine article on working up a load, or finding a more experienced BP shooter to stick with you the first few outings with the rifle, is recommended.    (The experienced shooter would be best - they can coach you through your first 'dry-ball' experience.)

Good luck, SCL

Daryl

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sirdutch -  in this video, I am loading a .445" ball with a .0215" denim patch (10oz). The video starts with the bal and patch sitting on the muzzle's top surface.  My starter has a short knob that is used to push it down into the muzzle, then the long shaft is used to seat the ball another 5" or 6" into the bore. This allows the rod to use the bore's wall for support as it shoves the ball down the bore. Note I am using the rifle's 3/8" hickory rod and how easily the rifle is loaded. Note also, we shot this video after shooting the entire trail - at least 50 shots - never wiping the bore - note, ther is no buildup of fouling in the bore- whatsoever.  The 50th or 80th shot loads as easily as the first. I had run out of priming powder, and used the powder from my main horn - 3F GOEX.
 

Daryl

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The muzzle's condition is very important, vital even, to allow a nice tight combination to be loaded.  If the muzzle's crown has sharp, maching cut corners or bevels, these 'corners' will cut the patch of a snug combination, making loose combinations feel tight. A loose combination will allow fouing buildup in the bore, which will make loading difficult- the 2nd, 3rd- 10th or 20th becoming hard to shove down. If this happens, the patch must be thicker - or if alredy thck, must have more lube in it, whether it is spit, water, water/alcohol/oil mix or whatever. Most all patch lubes work - bu tthe patch musrt be wet - damp, or licked, doesn't work. The barrel is long, enough lube must be used to remain wet all the way down, and back out again.

Note the starters - they all have a long shaft, a short stud and a hole. The short stud is for putting the ball into the bore to start it as in the video sequence.  This puts it straight in with even pressure on each side.  The hole in the starter is for putting over the end of the rod, to seat the ball on the powder, the same every shot - as in the video.

Always remember - in muzzleloading shooting, consistancy is 50% of your accuracy. Do it exactly the same, every time. Use a method of loading, that you can exactly duplicate every time. This is what we do.

Crowning a machine-beveled barrel. A piece of emery cloth, 320 grit or wet/dry paper in 320 grit is pushed into the bore with the end of the thumb. Rotated, the thumb radiuses and smooths the machine cut crown, making it patch friendly.

 Rotate the barrel periodically, which will ensure a perfectly even crown. Using this method, you can nicely crown a muzzle in 10 to 15 minutes. I put a cloth patch down into the bore a couple inches before crowning to collect the grit and dust. This is easily retrieved by tweezers or long needlenosed pliers - or with a worm on a rod.




Offline Dphariss

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Hello,

I'm still new to this sight and have only recently bought a contemporary flintlock. I'm not sure where on this forum to ask a question on what size ball to use with  my muzzle loader. My rifle is not marked as to caliber. A 44 cal ball ( that I use with a 1860 Army Colt ) that measures .451 just fits in the bore with almost no pressure with my finger. As I need to use a lubed patch when loading, how much smaller of a ball should I use? Should the ball it be loose enough to roll down the barrel if I insert it without a patch? I know it's a dumb question that only a green horn would ask but I want to use the right size ball. I'm looking forward to using a flintlock for the first time.

Any help or direction to the appropriate spot on this forum would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sirdutch

P.S. If you search under sirdutch you will see my pics on the rifle. Any comments would be appreciated. Great site by the way. I hope to join up with the Big Horn Mountain Men of Orange County, California and go on a rendezvous myself in the future. I can't wait.

Buy a box of .440 or .445 balls or order them from some place like Track of The Wolf.
These will work with a heavy ticking patch, the blue stripe stuff that you can likely buy from the same place you find the balls. The precut/prelubed patches are likely too thin but will get you shooting.
I would use .445 and a heavy ticking bought from a fabric store. 100% cotton blue stripe from the fabric store will run .018 to .020+ depending...
Lubed with spit or PURE NEATSFOOT oil they will work fine. Also buy a 1000 large cleaning patches or 2 yards of white diaper flannel if you want to make your own.
Until you get it figured out wipe with a wet, more than damp less than dripping, patch then a dry one both sides every shot if using Neatsfoot. Spit should load without wiping.
You can try some of the commercial lubes as well.
If you stick a ball due to fouling, say 1/2 way down, dump a little water in the bore, teaspoon full maybe, let set or 5 minutes and it should then be loose enough to seat. The shooting patches need to be pretty saturated with lube, dry patches can be a nightmare for the new shooter then may load very hard.
Always seat the ball in the powder. Never shoot a stuck ball out of the bore. It has to be pushed down to the powder.
If you load without powder trickle FFFF or crushed FFF/FF though the vent with a pick or dry grass stem and shoot it out. 5-10 grains will often too it, a couple of pans full of powder. If this does not work you will need a ball puller and preferably a metal rod to pull it. Dump a little water or oil in to let the ball slide easier.

Getting hooked up with a GOOD KNOWLEDGEABLE ML shooter is a great help as well and can save a lot of grief.
Have fun

Dan

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 08:30:41 PM by Dphariss »
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Daryl

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A good comprehensive post for a new person, Dan, especially noting to Not shooting a 'stuck' load as it is of vital importance to your safety and everyone's around you.

sirdutch

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Hey gents!

I am impressed with all of the information you guys have offered me here. I have printed it out for future reference. I am happy to have found this site. My next step will be to get some reading material on the subject and even more helpful then that will be to seek out an experience bp flintlock shooter.

Earlier, I got advised to check to see if the rifle I bought might be loaded as it is a used rifle. Oddly enough, even an experienced rim fire and center fire gun owner like myself didn't even consider the possibility. How scary is that! I shudder to think of what could have happened if it was loaded and I decided to check the spark out on the action. This place is giving me an education in a new hobby that I know will be both fun an educational. I am a history buff as it is.

All the best to all of you guys.

Meindert