Author Topic: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION  (Read 12227 times)

AntiqueGuns

  • Guest
H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« on: September 29, 2011, 07:34:20 AM »
ADDITION:

I TOOK OFF THE FOREARM, A FRIEND SUGGESTED IT SHOULD BE EASY.

1) THERE IS NO SPLICE IN THE FOREARM, THE AREA THAT WAS MENTIONED BY HURRICANE HAD A REPAIR ON ONE SIDE, A SQUARE REPLACED SPOT, BUT IT DOES NOT EXTEND AROUND THE FOREARM, I HAVE TAKEN PHOTOS SHOWING THE ENTIRE AREA.

2)  THE BARREL HAS NOT BEEN STRETCHED.

3)  THE RINGS THAT THE KEYS FIT THROUGH TO ATTACH THE STOCK TO THE BARREL ALL MATCH PERFECTLY.  I HAVE PHOTOGRAPHED ALL OF THEM, THE ESCUTECHEONS ON THE KEY HOLES ARE ALL ENGRAVED AND MATCH PERFECTLY.  

4)  THE TRIGGERGUARD IS THE ONLY METAL PIECE THAT IS NO ENGRAVED ON THE GUN, SO THE COMMENT THAT IT MIGHT BE REPLACED SEEMS TO HOLD MERIT.  

















 Fellows, I have had this gun a while, I would like some feedback.  If my description is correct and adequate, without being over embellished.  It is not for sale right now, and has not been on my web site.

Pennsylvania Mountain Rifle, made by Henry Gibbs of Lancaster City, Lancaster County, PA.  c. 1811-1843.  This maker can be found in Whisker and Wood's book, ARMS MAKERS OF LANCASTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA.  His guns are photographed on pages 103-105.  Gibbs was a contemporary of Melchoir Fordney, who is described by Kindig as one of the best gunsmiths in Lancaster.  Gibbs work shows the influence of Fordney, (According to Whisker).  This gun is much more embellished than any of the guns in Whiskers book.  
It has a Drepperd Lock, finely engraved Brass, German Silver and Screw Heads on lock and tang screws.  This rifle was originally flint and expertly converted to percussion, with a barely visible line on breech end of the barrel.  The top of the barrel has fine dot style engraving over most of its length that is very difficult to photograph.  The carving on the stock shows some incised and small patches of raise carving, Pin point dot engraving on muzzle, a few expertly done stock repairs, one of which has come open and should be fixed.  The ramrod is replaced. The stock appears of harder burl type wood with some faint false stripping.  The four pin barrel attachments have incised Engraved German Silver Escutcheons.  Engraved brass pipe base.  The upper tang screw and both lock screws have engraved screw heads.  German silver decoration within the highly engraved brass patchbox.  The barrel is 40 3/4 inches long and crisply rifled in .40 caliber with 7 grove rifling.  This maker did much more engraving on his metal parts than almost any maker, other than Fordney.  Fine overall, it has the repair that has come loose, I plan to get this send out to get fixed. But I am looking at a recommendation on that.  I have no western gunsmiths that I have seen their work on Mountain Rifles before.
ADDITION: i


























ADDITION: i TOO
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:42:32 AM by AntiqueGuns »

Offline Buck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
  • A.F.A.M. # 934, Trinity Commandry #80
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 03:40:57 PM »
Absolutely beautiful, the Eagle is phenominal.

realtorone

  • Guest
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 04:37:23 PM »
Really a super rifle.You should be very proud of it.

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2654
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 08:10:44 PM »
This is a keeper! Why would you ever want to sell it, unless you had to? A rifle like this can almost become a retirement account. If this isn't the finest Gibbs ever made, it will do until that one comes along. This is a stunning piece of work. Thank you for bringing it to our view.
Much appreciated. Good photos too. The gun does have some problems as you point out,
(don't they all?), but all of that can be taken care of.
Not sure where you live, but if you contact me PM I'll share some names of top grade restorers with you. Thanks again.
Dick

Offline alyce-james

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 08:38:53 PM »
One of the most outstanding rifles I've seen. Where does one start to comment on this rifle with such fine craftmanship. Thanks for sharing with us. Jim
"Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker". by Poet Ogden Nash 1931.

Offline Majorjoel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3138
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 09:38:19 PM »
A real pleasure to see such a treasure Mr. Robles. It is the nicest Gibbs rifle I have ever seen and pars up with some of the M. Fordney work that passed my eye's. A couple of observations that come from my opinion bank (Left Brain). I would not call this piece a mountain rifle. I'd call it a Lancaster Pennsylvania Kentucky rifle. About the lock being a conversion, I really doubt this great Gibbs was ever a flintlock. The percussion lock work with it's matching engravings on the hammer and the flower'd drum fit the rest of the rifle like the day it was made. I honestly feel that always being a percussion takes absolutly nothing away from this high art longrifle. Thank you for showing us!...Joel
Joel Hall

Offline Majorjoel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3138
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 10:07:17 PM »
A barrel removal and inspection would quickly solve this question.
Joel Hall

AntiqueGuns

  • Guest
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 11:51:42 PM »
First of all I have no ego in this, and this gun was posted last night at midnight, NORD called me about 10:00 Am this morning, about 10 hours after it was posted, and
voiced his concerns.
For Hurricane to say I posted the gun knowing
Nord's comment, is an out right lie or at least
someone being very loose with the actual facts.  His statment is a direct challenge to my honesty
 
" Robles was informed but chose to post the gun here anyway.
"
It was 10 hours after I posted the item before I hear from NORD.

Before I make cracks about some persons character, I make sure my facts are straight.  It is too bad Hurricane feels getting a story straight is not important.  I came here, not representing the gun as absolute fact, but respectfully asking opinions. 

Nord's concern was the two rear key holes being closer together than the foreward two.  Hurricane splice is in front of those holes not between them.  So that leaves a question, but is a paradox for Hurricanes concern.  I will have my gun smith take the gun apart and ask him if there was a splice.  When he fixes the crack in the stock. 

I learned long ago in my gun career, that before you start tearing into someones integrity.  You should be pretty carefull, Hurricane does not know me from Adam, he has never spoked to me, never dealt with me and
knows nothing about me.  Yet he feels it is his role to challenge my integrity. 

Had I had the same concerns Hurricane did, I would have mentioned there appearred to be a splice in the forearm and ask if I had taken off the stock?  NO he said I was deliberately withholding the truth.  That might be the way he does business, but not the way I do business.

I am going on, because if someone feels he can LIE in print and not be called out on it, then he is mistaken.

I have been very controlled her, in person Hurricane would feel wrath he has problaly seldom felt.




Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 12:33:29 AM »
Hmmm... I don't know enough to see the suggested splices...but I am interested in the hole in the side panel that looks as though the gun originally had a single pinned trigger


Maybe it is from some repair efforts... Interested in what your gunsmith would find there.

The trigger guard looks too big as well...but I am not a student of this man's guns.

Thanks for posting it and I will be interested to see what else we learn. It is a really beautiful piece of American craftsmanship!
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline nord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 01:46:20 AM »
Rob & All...

A misunderstanding I believe. Hurricane thought that you were making a statement and not asking a question. Maybe my fault and I'm truly sorry if this is the case as my conversation with him was rather short as I was on a cell and between some rather critical projects.

To be absolutely clear to all...

Rob contacted me and asked my thoughts about this rifle. I thought this a beautiful gun, but I had some concerns. I forwarded the photos to Hurricane who had time to study them in detail. He raised some issues I'd not noticed and I informed Rob of this when I had time at noon.

Rob has not been in the least dishonest in this matter. He wishes to know the truth and is willing to let the facts come out. I would ask anyone commenting on this piece to bear in mind that we're all looking for the truth. My hope is that my concerns are unfounded. I believe the same could be said for Hurricane. Let's vet this thing reasonably with an eye toward fairness and the truth.

My Best,

B
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2654
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2011, 03:22:34 AM »
Seems to me that a critical question here is simply this: How many half stocked rifles did Gibbs produce? I have never seen one that sticks in my mind. He may have made a very few, but almost all his work was full stocked. This is not to say that he never made any and the double keyed barrel at the rear end is curious. I can see why there is some concern; also, a fine gun such as this is should not had the forearm broken, but that too happens. Dunno, Gents! Removing the barrel should reveal the facts.
Dick

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2081
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 03:44:22 AM »
Apology forthcoming from me indeed to Mr  Robles. I have deleted my comment. The error was in communication, I regret. I believed that Mr Robles was aware of my thoughts prior to the posting ( I did not check the time of the actual post).I have seen the additional photos of the barrel channel and the repair that , in part mislead me. It does indeed appear that the forearm is original. My hat off to Mr Robles for responding to my honestly intended but poorly expressed concern and for being the owner of such a fine gun.
Hurricane
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 03:54:05 AM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

AntiqueGuns

  • Guest
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2011, 03:50:38 AM »
I accept the apology, water under the bridge.

Offline Curt J

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1521
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 04:11:43 AM »
Hi Rob,  I have purchased at least two Illinois-made rifles from your website (antiqueguns.com) auctions. Nice to see you here.

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2081
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 02:08:22 PM »
We rarely get to see a gun revealed in such detail and thank the owner for that. It appears that there is a barrel touch mark and perhaps it leads to a clue to the history of this maker. It appears to be a "J.B". Does anyone recognize it and who it maybe?
Hurricane
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 02:09:24 PM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

Offline eastwind

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2011, 01:22:51 AM »
The "JB" is likely John or Jacob Bear--prolific gun barrel makers in Manheim Township and Lancaster City at about the same time as Gibbs worked.
Patrick Hornberger

A wonderfull rifle--should be in my Lancaster Rifle Exhibit next year.
Patrick Hornberger

Offline WElliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2011, 05:58:17 AM »
What a handsome rifle.  Thanks for sharing.
Wayne Elliott

pault5

  • Guest
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2011, 04:21:31 AM »
I collect Lancaster long rifles, I have a J.Dickert, M,Fordney J.Fordney, J.Gonter, J.Bear, A.Gumph, J.Hoak, A.Schweitzer, Dreppart, Hoak. Leman, Jesse Pannbacker & more, but I love own this Gibbs, it truely is a beauty  !
 Good Luck with it Rob.

Thanks for showing us,
pault
 

Sean

  • Guest
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2011, 02:35:20 AM »
That is the finest Gibbs I've seen.  Thank you for posting it.

Sean

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: H. Gibbs Rifle, Lancaster, PA, ADDITION
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2011, 04:59:30 AM »
He has it up for sale on his site now.

FK