Author Topic: New build in progress  (Read 24726 times)

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19550
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2011, 06:14:44 PM »
Enough decoration can make it near impossible to decipher the architecture of some rifles.  But there are basic rules for longrifles whether they are Christians Spring and 1775 or Bedford and 1840.  When I was learning stuff from Chuck Dixon way back in the late 70's, I'd take him a rifle and he'd examine it as much by touch as by sight.  He'd run his hands along it, turn it in his hand while holding the wrist, in front of the lock, along the forestock, from the tang to the comb, etc.  Doesn't matter what school it is, or how decorated it is, if the architecture is off, that's a problem.  Of course Chuck has a great way of making a fella feel great about the things done right, while gently pointing out what could have been done a little different, and might have had a pleasing effect.

Unless one is truly a master, most builds have some things to celebrate and some things that could have been done better.  Pointing out the flaws doesn't ruin everything, and celebrating the great parts of a build doesn't cover a multitude of flaws.  There's also a reason why they submit rifles anonymously at many gun judging venues such as Dixon's.  The guns should be judged alone, not by reputation etc.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Lucky R A

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
  • In Costume
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2011, 06:42:00 PM »
Rich,  Since we are all about long rifles and usually concentrate on those of the Colonial and Golden age, those architectural details should apply to documentary or contemporary interpretations of said rifles.  The gun in question is an amalgamation of various styles and regional details, as well as some glaring architectural errors.   If we don't apply these "rules" to the guns we build either traditional/documentary efforts or contemporary interpretations of these rifles, we soon end up with tie dyed, fiberglass , stainless steel corruptions of a muzzleloader fired by in-line ignition systems!   I have no doubt that the builder of the rifle in question is very skilled in some areas.   If what he is doing pleases him, great!  The problem is that it just doesn't fit here where we try to teach the American Longrifle by good example.
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Offline Robby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2656
  • NYSSR ―
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2011, 07:12:02 PM »
I Think it will be interesting to see the finished gun. Are these current details of architecture meant to arouse? Piney's not above sending up something to stimulate conversation, and is fully capable of reworking this gun into  architectural details that most would find acceptable.  ;D Time will tell!
Yeah Dan that's a good analogy ;).
Robby
molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2011, 08:07:48 PM »
... Of course Chuck has a great way of making a fella feel great about the things done right, while gently pointing out what could have been done a little different, and might have had a pleasing effect...
the lack of the ability or desire to communicate in this way seems to be quite common these days.  I used to be quite very much always guilty of that me self.

I'm trying to get over it.

Also, thanks for posting this rifle.  Much is learned by the actions and reactions of others.  My best carvings are with the chainsaw...i'm a ninny with the chisels and scrapers.  That woodworking is fantastic.



« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 08:54:46 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

mjm46@bellsouth.net

  • Guest
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »
I'm probably going to get skewered for this but here goes. Give the guy a break. Maybe he's building the Steve Boyleston School. I see nothing wrong with that. Is there a rule that all longrifles must be reproductions of originals? Did he represent it as any particular shcool? What he's done if beautiful work. What exactly is the definition of American Longrifle anyway? If the old masters took the attitude of some here there would be only ONE style of longrifle, and this whole hobby with it's great diversion would never have happened.

Personally I really try to build rifles that are not copies of a particular rifle but what may have come from a certain makers shop, to the best of my ability and knowledge. But if I saw Steve Boyleston's rifle in person I would still be very impressed.

Sorry for the rant, Just my 2 Cents.

Offline Glenn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2011, 03:18:52 AM »
I'm probably going to get skewered for this but here goes. Give the guy a break. Maybe he's building the Steve Boyleston School. I see nothing wrong with that. Is there a rule that all longrifles must be reproductions of originals? Did he represent it as any particular shcool? What he's done if beautiful work. What exactly is the definition of American Longrifle anyway? If the old masters took the attitude of some here there would be only ONE style of longrifle, and this whole hobby with it's great diversion would never have happened.


Good point indeed.
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Offline Long John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Give me Liberty or give me Death
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2011, 03:43:30 AM »
I've been worrking way tooo much and have just now had the time to log in and react to this thread.

I think Acer hit the nail on the head - it is a contemporary work and should be viewed as such. 

So when I look at the rifle I see a high degree of technical skill in the execution of the engraving and carving.  This guy is MUCH better at carving and engraving than I am!  I admire the skill that has been exhibited.  The majority of the inletting looks tight and well done.  So, technically it is a well executed piece.

Notice that I didn't say I liked it.  I don't and wouldn't offer to buy it.  While techncially very impressive it does not appeal to my sense of aesthetics.  That's because I am hopelessly in love with pre-revolutionary war era rifles and I don't know if I have ever liked a contemporary gun.  I have never offered to buy one and doubt I ever will.  But some folks are less infatuated with a bygone era and are more open to something utterly modern.  Don't try to understand them for they are a breed apart and make no sense.

Best Regards,

JMC

Offline Don Getz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6853
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2011, 04:32:07 AM »
Boy, I just tuned in on this thing and already there are four pages of comments on this, not sure what to really call it.
I'm not sure what he created here, looks somewhat like what a camel jockey would carry.   When you state that the carving looks great, apparently you have never studied the stuff Jim Kibler does, same goes for the engraving.  And what a crazy bit of architecture.   First thing that really jumped out at me were the ping pong table size lock panels.  But, to each his own, sure glad I didn't open the box along with a bill for it............Don

MarkEngraver

  • Guest
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2011, 04:45:20 AM »
Don,  your like a hot knife through butter !!

Mark

Offline Bill of the 45th

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
  • Gaylord, Michigan
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2011, 06:25:56 AM »
Salvidore Dali on good grass.  I like it, and I hate it.  Think those melting pocket watches.

Bill
Bill Knapp
Over the Hill, What Hill, and when did I go over it?

hoochiepapa

  • Guest
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2011, 06:44:51 PM »
Another .02 cents
I LOVE Jaeger rifles. They are ornate to a fault, some would say, and you don't see many people building them. I think some are stuck in a rut, and think that is the only rut to be in. I think ornate rifles are the crown jewels of rifle making, and there should be more folks that make them. Maybe I'll be stuck someday with a gun cabinet full of ornate rifles, but so be it.
Think Larry Gardener. He builds beautiful rifles. Maybe some should expand their horizons. If my opinion makes some of you angry, I apologize.
'Nuff sed.

Vomitus

  • Guest
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2011, 07:17:56 PM »
  Hey Bill, I like Salvatore Dali!

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2011, 11:46:58 PM »
Hoochiepapa,
A rut by definition is a grave with both ends not in place.

Bob Roller

Offline John SMOthermon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 538
  • John SMOthermon
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2011, 03:46:33 AM »
Wow I've been away way too long! I come back to see whats going on and get a first class leason in rifle building in the first post i read. I must say that I have never built a rifle myself,but I'm planning to one of these days. What I've learned from this post is: (1) What ping pong table sized lock panels look like. (2) How to disguise rear sight on a smoothrifle.(3) Now i know what type of gun a camel jockey carries. (4) If I ever do attempt to build a long rifle don't post pics on the web (just kidding that's how we learn isn't it?) I do agree with what Acer and others have said  it's a "Contemporary Style" rifle. IMHO I like to see Craftsmen try new things and experiment. If it wasn't for experimentation we would not be able to all have this discussion right now.It's still a free Country and everyone is still free to express ones self. Thank God for that.    Hmmm.. Steve Boyleston...where do i remember that name... :-\ Are you the artist known formally as "The Great Piney One"? ;D ;) Keep doing what you do best.. Steve
Smo

Good Luck & Good Shootin'

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3808
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: New build in progress
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2011, 10:42:05 PM »
I'm sure Steve appreciates both the fans and detractors of this build and especially the passion of banter
generated by this posting.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.