ALR Museum MAster Gunmaker: G. S. Fainot of Lancaster, PA. "A Great Gun"

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

The Committee is presenting  a rare true 18th C. American gun which all consider to be "GREAT". Fainot was believed to have emigrated from his birth place in France to Halifax, NS, then to New York ad finally worked in Lancaster, PA from 1770 to his death in 1817. WEe thank to owner for allowing us to obtain these photos.

This attribution was made by Wester A White, one of the most knowledgeable men on Rev War arms. (James Whisker)

Here is the URL:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15403.0

Comment here please

The Museum Committee

[spgordon]

Beautiful rifle. Is it signed?

As a newcomer to the study of eighteenth-century rifles, I wonder if I could ask how the attribution to George Fainot was made? I'm guessing that there are signed Fainots to which this rifle can be compared, but my quick check of Kindig and Shumway didn't turn up any images of Fainot rifles. I see that Whisker's Gunsmiths of Lancaster County offers two images of this same rifle, but that text gives no information about why the rifle was attributed to Fainot.

By the way, here is an entry for Fainot in a Lancaster Moravian congregation catalog, which lists his birthdate, the date he joined the church and the date he was first permitted to take communion, the same information for his wife, etc.

Whisker lists Fainot's birth year as 1728. The numbers are hard to make out in this Moravian catalog, but the last digit in Fainot's birth year doesn't seem to be an "8." Could be, though.

Scott



detail of year of birth:

[mkeen]

Whisker lists Fainot's birth year as 1728. The numbers are hard to make out in this Moravian catalog, but the last digit in Fainot's birth year doesn't seem to be an "8." Could be, though.

Scott

Scott

The scribe was having a bad day with that entry. Looks like it could possibly be a one. Look at the one in line 31. Interesting that he entered the date of joining the church originally as June 29 ,1771 and then had to change it to 1770. The date of first communion was January 26, 1771. That's one of those entries you have to add a question mark. Are there other entries for Fainot in the Lancaster Moravian church records? Are these records kept at the Moravian Archives in Bethlehem?

Mart Keen

[spgordon]

Mart,

I'd initially suggested in my post that it could be a "1" precisely because of that "1" in 31--but then I deleted that suggestion from my post: I suspect that the odd "31" is actually a "1" and then a cross to indicate that Vetter had died. But that's just supposition: I don't know what year Vetter died & would have to check my notes to see what year this catalog was written. But it does look like that "1" in "31."

Yes, there are many congregation catalogs from Lancaster in the Moravian Archives. (Enormous amounts of material from Lancaster generally.) It's from one of these catalogs that I learned, for instance, that Leonhard Bender's wife (maiden name Baer) was a Mennonite (which is recorded in one catalog but not in others).

I would think there are entries for Fainot in other Lancaster catalogs as well, but I never looked for them: I saw this by chance six months ago when I was doing the research on Baer/Bender, etc.

Scott

[spgordon]

I thought I'd just repeat my original question (though am also interested in the facts of Fainot's life):

Is this rifle signed? If not, how was the attribution made to George Fainot? Are there other signed Fainots to which this rifle was compared?

Scott

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

I was able to speak with the owner ( I did the photos) and the gun is not signed but is attributed based on "similar signed rifles."
Hurricane

[spgordon]

Interesting. Do the signed Fainots have carving on the stock? -- Scott

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

This attribution was made by Wester A White, one of the most knowledgeable men on Rev War arms. (James Whisker)

[spgordon]

Thanks to all, esp. James Whisker, for the information regarding the attribution here and on the ALR page that has the images themselves.

It was brought to my attention that there are images of two other Fainot rifles in Heckert and Vaughn's Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle--and there are close resemblances between the patchbox on one of these rifles and the attributed Fainot pictured here. I assume those two Fainots are signed, since the Heckert/Vaughn book doesn't indicate otherwise and it's pretty responsible about noting what is unsigned and what signed.

I would assume (again, I'm new to all this) that, without at least one signed rifle by a given maker, it would be impossible to attribute any rifles to him? Or am I misunderstanding something about how expert attributions can be made? (That is, I assume that attributions are made by checking unsigned rifles against a known signed one.) I realize that attributions to a particular school or region could be made--but to a particular maker, I would think, would require at least one signed rifle by that maker?

Thanks again,

Scott

[vanu]

This rifle is unsigned although there are remnants of markings in the top flat near the rear sight. As you are aware, the cast brass patchbox is very distinctive and differs substantially from others in the Lancaster region. The distinctiveness of this patchbox is what points to a Fainot attribution, if you look at the Fainot in Schumway Vol II RCA, the parallels are remarkable. There is an excellent discussion of this rifle in Muzzle Blasts from 2007 in a two part series by Wallace Gusler. Also, take a look at the 1961 article about Joe Kindig Jr. (http://www.kindigrifles.com/sun_article.html); there is a Fainot patchbox showing in the rack behind his right shoulder! This rifle came from Kindig via Pipert in the 50's, so it was likely one of the three that Kindig Jr. had in his collection back in the 50-60's.

[rich pierce]

Fabulous rifle of great importance.  Thanks for sharing these.  It sure has that Fainot patchbox.  The guy did things his way and it really "worked".

[vanu]

Rich,

Glad you liked the post,  I certainly agree with you on Fainot's work, it is bold, extremely well executed and possesses a workmanlike sophistication that is very appealing.  On this rifle, the buttplate is an anomaly however; almost looks as though it was altered to fit the cast patchbox! I hope to have more to offer as I dig deeper into Fainot's work.

Bruce

[Majorjoel]

A very special golden age longrifle! I wonder if John Bivins copied this butt plate when he designed his hardware set? Fainot was truly a master artist who marched to his own tune! Thank you for allowing this rifle to be on display in the museum.

[vanu]

Joel,

The Fainot rifle really is a great piece, particularly for the early period it represents (ca 1780). I'll try and get some updated photos and upload them to the museum.  the Bivins connection is interesting! I believe that I have one of John's Lancaster butt plates in my stash...I'll check it out this evening...stay tuned. I have to admit, the patchbox is absolutely wonderful, and the triggerguard hits it out of the park these are probably my two favorite elements on the rifle. That said, the stock architecture is perfect, the big massive lock and strong sidepale really make a wonderful statement.

Bruce

[rich pierce]

I don't see a resemblance to the Bivin's buttplate, which I dislike intensely.  I know that's blasphemy but I have never seen an original with a buttplate like the one Bivins designed for the Bicentennial rifles.  The Bivins buttplate has very little doming on the top tang extension and looks primarily designed to be easy to "inlet" with a bandsaw. If you look closely at this Fainot buttplate you will see a crack at the heel angle, suggesting it was bent there to fit the pitch or whatever he was trying to achieve.  Maybe the apprentice messed it up a little and Fainot had to take a mallet to it.  It's one of the little foibles that give the gun a lot of character, and that would cause a lot of points off nowadays.  I think then they just had to get the gun out the door.

[vanu]

Rich,

The mallet option is probably correct, I'd like to think it had something to do with the cast box, but as we know the butt plate is set before the patchbox is inletted...

Whatever prompted the mounting of the butt plate in this manner; as you note, it certainly adds to the character of the overall rifle!

Bruce

[eastwind]

This rifle by Fainot, along with 60 other Lancaster made long rifles (and pistols) will be on display next year at the LANCASTER LONG RIFLE EXHIBIT to be held at the Landis Valley Museum in Lancaster - starting March 11, 2012.
Details, contact: Patrick Hornberger, Guest Curator at  410-476-4445 or eastwind@hughes.net.