Author Topic: Ketland Guns in America  (Read 7206 times)

Offline jdm

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Ketland Guns in America
« on: November 07, 2011, 04:03:49 AM »
  Excelant article in the new  "Man At Arms" by Joe Puleo.  It's on the Ketlands in America. A good read for all.
JIM

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 04:34:21 AM »
Where is a copy of this avail?
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 05:16:56 AM »
If you can't readily find it... depending on where you are in the country not every outlet carries it... you can call the office. Kristin will take care of getting it out to you. 401.597.5055 The web site is www.gunandswordcollector.com

And thanks for the nice words!

Joe Puleo

Offline lexington1

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 11:45:48 PM »
That's a great article on the Ketlands! You mentioned period fake Ketland marked locks at the end of the article, so I thought you might get a kick out of this lock which is marked 'Kertland'. It was on an old smoothbore that was made up of reused parts from different guns.

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 11:58:00 PM »
We all hope that you do a book on English locks, Joe. You are the authority, in my opinion, on the murkey lock situation here in the new world. And, the Ketlands were major suppliers of quality locks to the makers here; it appears that they may have controlled the market for some time. Thank you for sharing your information.
Dick 

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 01:57:41 AM »
I am certain there will be more on locks in the Ketland book and not just their locks because I won't be able to resist using about everything I can find...

What does it actually say on that lock? I think I'd like a picture of the whole name. I would say that was an English-made lock, not one of the Belgian fakes.

I have some new information on the name too. I have reasonably good reason to think it was pronounced "Cartland"... which goes a long way to explaining why the Ketland's would be so concerned with fakes marked "Kotland." In a day long before regularized spelling, when perhaps the general public was barely literate, this would have been a small difference. .As I said, I've never seen one of those. Had they been common I think we would have seen them so my best guess at the moment is that the Ketlands, in England (they were all dead or back in the UK by 1816) got a garbled story about the Belgian fake guns and took out ads to expose them. I doubt they ever saw one of the fakes and its certain none of them were sent to England.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:59:54 AM by JV Puleo »

Offline lexington1

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 02:22:18 AM »
Sorry but I don't have any other pics of the lock. I swapped the gun off a few years back. I'm certain that it was Kertland though, because it always struck me as odd that the name was just a little off. It reminded me of some of the knock-off Colt copies that were marked Colter, etc.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 02:41:47 AM »
Congrats Joe. I'll be looking up a copy. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline bgf

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 04:53:47 AM »
Kertland would be an interesting spelling, as would the pronunciation "Kartland" and the pseudolocks labelled "Kotland".  What is known about the Ketlands before they became famous as English lock makers?  Is the name possibly German or Scandinavian in origin and "anglicized" to Ketland?

Offline TPH

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 05:02:20 PM »
Congrats Joe. I'll be looking up a copy. ;D

Agreed, Joe is one of the most knowledgeable experts out there and is very generous with his assistance.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 05:02:56 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 07:18:17 PM »
Stop guys... you're making me blush!

As to the name. So far it looks as if they came from Yorkshire. York is, of course, the site of a famous Viking settlement so there could be some Scandinavian connection, but it is likely hundreds of years before the introduction of gunpowder. I haven't traced the genealogy back past TK Sr.'s father - the elusive William who is commonly reported to have been a gunmaker but who I believe was nothing of the sort. I would like to conclusively nail down what he did. I'd also like to be able to prove that William Walker was a relation, as I suspect he was, not because it tells us anything about the guns but because it sheds light on the nature of business in the 18th century.

I am afraid that my book is going to have a good bit of non-gun history in it. I don't think the story makes a lot of sense unless there is sufficient background and an understanding of the world of an up-and-coming middle-class business man in Birmingham. It was different enough to warrant description since most modern readers project their own notions of how things work into the past - sometimes accurately, sometimes not. Birmingham itself deserves close examination. The Ketlands would not have been possible were it not for the remarkable development of B'ham and its mass of skilled tradesmen... of which the gun trade was only a small part.

Offline lexington1

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 08:26:59 PM »
I will be anxiously waiting for your book to come out!

Offline TPH

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, 05:30:58 PM »

[/quote]
Stop guys... you're making me blush!

The blush you mention is actually a flush from hard work and research. Thanks for your much appreciated hard work.  ;)
T.P. Hern

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 09:14:22 PM »
When I first attended the CLA show in Lexington this past fall, I was so impressed with the "SILVER MOUNTED KETLAND FOWLER" on a table near where I was set up.  After reading Joe Puleo's article "THE KETLAND'S IN AMERICA" the old fowler under the table  did not seem so humble anymore. Using Joe's article and following his directions I will describe my Ketland Fowler:
BRASS MOUNTED KETLAND EXPORT FOWING PIECE:THOMAS KETLAND & Co. Circa: 1815-1821; 44 1/4" inch, .60 caliber smooth bore barrel stamped "LONDON"   Post-1813 Birmingham Proofs, 5 inch, flint lock, stamped "KETLAND", percussion conversion; Cast brass foliate side plate with brass wrist escutcheon. Weight six lbs three ounces.

Keep the Ketland information coming.
Rick Pasche     

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Ketland Guns in America
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »
Some interesting information is an article by Gerald O Kelver  on the Ketland name , this appeared in the American Riflemans issue of the 1st June 1924
Feltwad