C.B. trade pistol

[jdm]

I would appreciate some help identifying this pistol. It is marked C.B.Phila. on the top of the barell. There is no name on the lock. The only C.B. I can come up with is  C. Bird out of Philadelphia. I was under the impression he was an importer of locks and did not make guns.  I am assuming this is a trade pistol but not sure. Fur trade, Indian trade or just cheap trade?  Any body got some ideas?     Thanks  JIM
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa394/jdmck58/IMG_0422.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa394/jdmck58/IMG_0423.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa394/jdmck58/IMG_0425.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa394/jdmck58/IMG_0429-1.jpg

[jdm]

Sorry  to bump my own question . I'm still looking for some help on this. Hoping someone new might see it.    Any help wood be appreciated.  Thanks  JIM

[Longknife]

Jim, I researched C.Bird recently and could find very little info on him only that he operated circa 1814 at 170 High Street , Philadelphia. These importers usually imported a wide variety of goods and it is entirely possible that C. Bird imported it and stamped his name on the barrel.  This gun looks very much like the imported trade pistols that were imported by and marked Ketland. Have you removed the lock and barrel to check for any markings that could indicate country of  origin?....Ed   

[jdm]

Ed, Thanks for the reply.  There is nothing on the lock that I can see. Front or back. On the side of the barrel  is the number six. The bottom has an X struck on it.  There is also another proof mark I can't make out.  Didn't Spain mark  with an X ? Don't know why I didn't pull the barrel before.  JIM

[Longknife]

Do they look like these???

http://www.gundealersonline.com/firearmid_spanish.asp

[jdm]

 It doesn't look like the Spain proof mark . It's just a plain X.  I guess that is a good thing.   Ed, you said C. Bird worked circa 1814. I would guess this pistol is twenty years later. Did you have any information on how long Bird was in business?  Thank you for the info & help.  JIM

[Longknife]

Jim; I only found two lines about Bird in "The Penn-Kent Rifle" by Kauffman, Listed under Lockmakers. Kauiffman also states "It is quite difficult in most cases to determine whether these people made their locks or bought locks and had their names engraved on them"

Bird, C. & Co. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 1814
Bird Charles & Co., 170 High Street, corner of Fifth, Philadelphia, Pa. 1814

I have a rifle with a converted C. Bird lock, the rifle maker died in 1834. Every one of the several Bird locks I have encountered were originally made as flint locks and I have never found a percussion lock marked C.Bird Here is a pic of a Bird lock I found on the net marked as such:



C. Bird & Co.
   Philad.
Warranted

[mr. no gold]

It appears to me that your pistol may have originally been issued in flint. Here's why; the hammer isn't engraved whereas the lock plate is. Not always a determinant, but works a lot of the time. The molding line around the base of the plate looks to be interupted about where the feather spring pin hole should be. The wide boss on the plate, up by the drum, suggests that there may have been a screw hole there for the battery. Some conversion experts were so good that today it can be difficult to find where the holes were.
Of course, many flint plates were never finished as such, going instead to use as percussion. Take a good close look at the plate and go from there. As previously mentioned the gun looks like it could be a somewhat older piece than supposed. Thanks for the chance to speak and for showing us a good clean, gun. Bird is probably your guy as Ed pretty well spells out.
Dick   

[Longknife]

Jim, It sure appears that the lock plate was once a flint. Take a look at the stock behind the hammer. If it was orig. made as a flintlock the wood will be cut back and the edge of the lock plate will be exposed where the orig flint cock "stop' would come to rest....Ed     

[jdm]

First off  Dick and Ed thank you for your interest  and advice.  The wood around the top of the lock by the nipple has not been cut away.   It's not cut  like you see on flints. The lock fits really good. The hammer fits well  but could be a replacement. It has a single lock bolt screw. I know there were single screw flints but not sure this was one.   The ramrod thimble is a replacement (poorly done ). That's all that I can see that's been messed with.   JIM

[nord]

Dr. Whisker...

"The only gunsmith I have in logical time frame for that pistol in Philadelphia is


Calvin Burden. gunsmith. 1819, back of 110 Race St. [City Dir.].

To my knowledge Bird only imported locks altho it is remotely possible he made some locks.
Note that the lock on the pistol is not marked Bird nor does it resemble those Bird sold. Especially since the barrel is marked CB my own bet therefore would be on Burden."

[jdm]

Thank you Jim and thanks Nord for posting.  Gives me another name to see what I can find out.  JIM