why do you and several others on this forum have this attitude? All you seem to want to do is discourage newcomers because they can't afford the custom guns that you offer.
rudyc
It might be because we have years of experience. I don't ever recall telling someone that their cheap, ill formed, mass produced ML was a piece of junk then attempting to sell them something I made. I don't have to stoop to this level of "salesmanship" nor does Mike or a host of others. Inferring that I don't like mass produced MLs because I want people to buy something I made is the argument of someone with no other ammunition.
No matter how much lipstick you smear on a pig its still a pig. This is just a fact.
People who whine about the cost of a custom are usually just too cheap to buy one OR even buy the parts for one. But will spend money on some "pig" then waste time and money "customizing" it. Its THEIR money. But don't come here asking questions because you might not like the answers.
How about all the American made guns that blew up years ago (they apparently changed barrel steels early in production but not nearly early enough). I could talk about the then local gunsmith that tried to pull the "drum" from a cheap import that was misfire prone (yeah the owner had been shooting it) and in turning it 1/4 turn it fell out of the barrel. Of others trying to remove machine installed breech plugs from American made mass produced guns that were so tight that it was possible that the breech was permanently damaged from being over torqued. This was evidenced by the breech BREAKING OFF when removal was attempted. But you could buy one cheap at most Wal-Marts at the time.
How about dovetails cut so deep that the bottom of the cut split when the rifle was fired? Yeah this happened too.
How about the "Ultra-hi" made in Japan by a big name in firearms that had a 2 piece barrel and the bore in octagonal piece did not line up with the bore in round part (it was "1/2 octagonal" fowler type) most of the time.
Or the time I saw a guy !@*%&@ near remove his head when his "pig" fell off 1/2 cock at a match, I still can't believe his hat brim was not holed . Two experienced gunsmiths could not reproduce this "event" BTW. But its a cheap lock with coil springs so what would anyone expect? Improper gun handling, perhaps. But MECHANICALLY it should not have happened.
People will buy used "pigs" from pawn shops then discover they were shot with highly corrosive substitute powders and the bore is pitted and rather than throw away the barrel since its now junk, will try to clean it up. Never mind that this stuff will make "crawdad holes" in the barrel especially in the ever present fouling traps in the breech (I have some photos somewhere that were sent by a friend years ago). People will clean them up and shoot the potential bomb anyway.
Of course if someone trys to tell them that buying used ones is a bad idea or that they are put together at in the cheapest possible manner that "someone" is then labeled by those who are for the most part CLUELESS as an "elitist". So its OK to paste an insulting label on someone with perhaps 40 years experience who in reality is trying to HELP the neophyte but its not OK to tell people they are smearing lipstick on a "pig". THIS is somehow "insulting."
Can't afford a custom?
There are REALLY good rifles that sell far too cheap on the TOW site and others. So rather than spend 2-500 bucks on some POS try SAVING some money over time and BUY A GOOD GUN or a kit from Chambers (they have their Haines kit on sale right now). There are people here that will bend over backwards to help you either by keyboard or in person if you are close enough IF the project is WORTHWHILE.
A GOOD gun is an INVESTMENT they will generally appreciate even with hard use. They are not like buying a used car. Its VERY difficult to lose money on a quality gun.
And in all honesty one must remember that there are "custom" guns out there that are so sloppily assembled and finished that they are little better, if at all, than the mass produced stuff.
Here is a piece of advice. If you cannot tolerate the answer don't ask the question. In almost every case the answer will be civil but the person that asks it may still be "insulted".
I refrain from posting to a great many things here. Mostly because
1: I know my comments would not be popular and
2: If I can't HELP people what is the point?
Further, the next time someone wants to tell me how wonderful these things are, just spend your time at some other endeavor. I have already seen and heard all of it for DECADES. It has not changed the facts or my opinion.
A question;
When shopping for a vehicle do you go to the dingiest used car lot you can find and buy a rusted out Yugo for 150-200 bucks? Then spray the rust with a rattle can and let you kids ride in it or drive it?
Just curious.
Dan
