Author Topic: Leehigh Valley Lube  (Read 6291 times)

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Leehigh Valley Lube
« on: December 06, 2011, 11:20:09 PM »
I had left my fowler loaded over the weekend and went out for a short while yesterday. Decided I had better fire it and reload on the next trip. Fired as normal and I cleaned it with plain cold water.  I normally wipe the bore down with alcohol and when I get home I run a patch damp with WD40 down the bore. I was out of alcohol and I decided to use LHV patches instead. Today I wanted to put the gun away so decided to wipe the bore with WD-40, ran a clean dry patch down the bore and I was very surprised to see the patch come out with lots of yellowish/brown color! I used several patches before I got most of it out. Then I used the WD 40 and danged if I didn't get more of the brown color out of the bore. Bore is slick and smooth as always but that brown color scares me! I have used LHV for patch lube for awhile now but never used it to protect the bore, not sure I want to again!
Dennis
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roundball

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 12:09:46 AM »
Could the color have been some sort of interaction between the LHV lube and the WD40...of do you think it was in fact the faint beginnings of rust?  I assume LHV lube has water in it?

Be interesting if you wiped some LHV lube on a piece of steel then sprayed it with WD40 and see what color turns up.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 12:16:09 AM »
Quote
Could the color have been some sort of interaction between the LHV lube and the WD40...of do you think it was in fact the faint beginnings of rust?  I assume LHV lube has water in it?
No, I did not use any WD 40 until AFTER I had run 5 or 6 dry patches in the bore. most of the brown was gone before I used a damp WD 40 patch and only a little more brown came out. I believe the color came from the LHV. It did not look like rust more of a yellowish/brown with no read rust color to it.

The LHV says it has alcohol in it, nothing about water.
Dennis
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William Worth

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 12:29:10 AM »
LHV does have water in it.  It is stated to be an aqueous solution.  Therefore~it has water in it.  It also has rosin in it and I believe that is the yellowish brown that you are seeing.  It is beneficial unless there is excessive deposition of it.  If you think you are getting too much of left in the barrel, put a few drops of turpentine on a cleaning patch and swab the bore.  It should come right out.

Daryl

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Re: Lehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 07:20:32 PM »
I've never seen the yellowish brown, yet used over a gallon of it some time back.  I'm experimenting with Shenedoah lube right now.  I can't speculate on what it is, but have found LHV and the Shenendoah lubes are the slipperiest lubes I've used and demand I use more powder to achieve normal accuracy.  They are like shooting a 'slick' barrel or a barrel 'gone slick' with a normal lube like spit.

Offline The Original Griz

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 08:01:56 PM »
Flash rust? Check out this site, it will surprise you with the results...
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 08:36:03 PM »
Quote
Flash rust? Check out this site, it will surprise you with the results...
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html
Don't think so, doesn't look like rust. Plus I tried it in my .54 Rice barrel and it did the same thing after leaving it overnight. I think its something in the LHV. See results (below) from the link above.

Quote
Results

As expected, the untreated surfaces started rusting in less than a day, with the polished surface seeming slightly more susceptable than the matte surface. After 24 hours, most surfaces showed at least some signs of rust. After one week, only the EEzOx, Ballistol and Lehighs were rust-free.


Daryl,
My LHV is not slick! Its in a spray bottle and it seems to work about like a spit patch, no problem seating the patch but I sure wouldn't call it the slickest lube I have used. Mine is old stock that I got about a year ago and is distributed by some lab, forget which.
Dennis

« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 08:39:18 PM by Dennis Glazener »
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Daryl

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 01:19:36 AM »
That's strange, Dennis - I started using it when OxYoke was producing it, with less Tall Oil in the mix. I wrote it up here as the most slippery lube I'd used. Shortly after that,the original formula became available and to tell you the truth, I didn't notice any real difference - it was still great shot beautifully - very slippery and very easy loading and required the same loads as the Oxyoke-made LHV in the .40 and .45 to give best accuracy.

Maybe your's is a bad batch of the OxYoke stuff.  Mine was geat (from Track).
Taylor's test showed some rust around the patched ball, but not in the barrel anywhere else, in his week-long loaded test.  He repeated the same test with Hoppe's #9 Plus (old bottle with dark brownish fluid) which gave no such rust anywhere, nor did either hurt the powder charge beneath the patched ball. We do no skimp on lube - the patches were wet when initially loaded. I assume as the patched ball is pushed down the bore, lube is drawn up the patch to the ball/bore junction through capilary, or some other action and does not remain as a runny liquid on the base of the ball to wet the powder.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:34:40 AM by Daryl »

Offline mark esterly

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 01:32:05 AM »
dennis
    if you habitually use wd40 my guess is dried and burnt on wd that the lehigh has managed to clean off.  i know a gunsmith that says he makes much money cleaning gunked up actions from wd40. 
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, 01:19:33 AM »
Quote
if you habitually use wd40 my guess is dried and burnt on wd that the lehigh has managed to clean off.  i know a gunsmith that says he makes much money cleaning gunked up actions from wd40.  
I don't think so, one of the three rifles I had with me that day was a brand new one with a brand new Rice .54 cal barrel. It had never had anything in it but clean patches. I fired it three times to verify ignition and that the sights were close enough for the new owner. I cleaned all three rifles the same and after cleaning I ran a couple of patches that had been sprayed with LHV lube. I pulled the 3rd rifle out today and ran a dry patch in to see what it looked like, it came out just like the others and its shown below, I do not believe its rust, almost looks like ear wax ;D The patch below is not from the new barrel, I checked it yesterday and did not photo it but it was very close to the same as the patch below.

I also checked the label today. Both bottles say Original Formula and have this address on the back of the label Lestom Labs Inc 232 West 5th St Oswego NY I am not knocking the product, I love it but was curious about the color when used as a bore protectant.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 01:26:34 AM by Dennis Glazener »
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Daryl

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 02:17:53 AM »
Sorry Dennis - I've not used it as a protectant.  The 'residue' must be left after the carrier & water evapourates.  Is it slippery?

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 06:28:24 AM »
Dennis,

Pour a little of the lube into a shot glass and allow it to evaporate.  The solids left in the bottom of the shot glass will be darker than what you see on your patch.

Take a clean whit cloth patch.  Place some mineral spirits or turpentine on it and run it down a bore in which you have used the Lehigh lube for some time.  You will pull some yellow to orange out of the bore with that.

The base for the lube is a softwood pulp by-product know as "tall oil".  Comes in a wide variety of "grades".   Mainly a mixture of fatty acids and some resins.  In the making of the lube the fatty acids are saponified with a caustic but a portion of the tall oil cannot be saponified.  The grade used to make it is critical in the performance of the lube in the gun.
The lube leaves a very thin film in the bore with acts as a surface rust inhibitor. 


E. Ogre

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2011, 04:54:33 PM »
Quote
Dennis,

Pour a little of the lube into a shot glass and allow it to evaporate.  The solids left in the bottom of the shot glass will be darker than what you see on your patch.

Take a clean whit cloth patch.  Place some mineral spirits or turpentine on it and run it down a bore in which you have used the Lehigh lube for some time.  You will pull some yellow to orange out of the bore with that.

The base for the lube is a softwood pulp by-product know as "tall oil".  Comes in a wide variety of "grades".   Mainly a mixture of fatty acids and some resins.  In the making of the lube the fatty acids are saponified with a caustic but a portion of the tall oil cannot be saponified.  The grade used to make it is critical in the performance of the lube in the gun.
The lube leaves a very thin film in the bore with acts as a surface rust inhibitor.


E. Ogre
Makes sense and about what I thought it was. Like I said it didn't bother me since I knew it wasn't rust. Just curious.
Thanks
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline mark esterly

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2011, 01:59:42 AM »
exactly the same color residue you get with a murphy's oil soap and denatured alcohol mix
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Daryl

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2011, 04:02:43 AM »
really?  I'm thinking the ball and patch combo is lighter than Taylor uses. He's used murphy's with no residue in the Bess, .60 Jaeger and .50 Virginia, never any residue.  On the other hand, our 2 stroke model airplane engines are brown coated from the burnt-on castor oil that is also included in the Moose Snot lube. I suspect if the combination isn't tight enough, castor might leave a residue - or the soap, who knows which or if both do?

Offline bgf

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Re: Leehigh Valley Lube
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2011, 04:21:51 AM »
I've seen the same residue with soybean oil used as a patch lube, either by itself or in a concoction.  It doesn't seem to come out at all with cold water and no detergent (in fact it seems to build up indefinitely and kill accuracy), but with hot water and detergent or a stronger solvent (such as acetone) a patch will come out looking just like that, sometimes a little browner.  Looks a lot like rust but smells "greasy" :).  I can't say for sure that patch thickness doesn't affect it, but I've seen it with heavy canvas patches (and a close-fitting ball) as much as any other combination.