Finished Wogden set trigger built from castings.

[Rolf]

I put together today the Wogden settrigger castings I bougth from Blackley.

It was easier than I thought. It took about 6 hours. Small parts were soft soldered to a piece of 1/8” sheet steel before drilling holes. I measured the size of the “dimples” and picked the corresponding screw and pin sizes
Main spring screw: 4mm
Weak spring screw: 3mm
Trigger screw: 3mm
Rear hook pin: 2mm


I’m a bit surprised it went well. There is very little steel left around some of the holes.
The bolsters on the trigger plate are only 1,6mm (1/16”) thick.


The main spring was supplied as a spring steel casting. The weak spring I cut out of 1/16” thick spring steel. Both springs were heated to 1500 F (825C) and quenched in oil. They were tempered for 1 hour at 750^oF (400^oC). I used a heat treating oven. The springs are a lot smaller than the ones I’m using on the single phase double set trigger I built.
 http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=20180.msg190836#msg190836
 The trigger seems to function correctly, so I think I probably could have designed the springs a lot smaller.




One of the big differences with the wogden trigger contra the SPDT trigger is that the triggerblad does not drop down after engaging the sear. Tension from the weak spring on the rear hooked hinders this. As a consequence, the trigger must be set first before the lock can be set. This seems a bit dangerous. Are all single set trigger like this?

Best regards
Rolf

[Dphariss]

If the trigger must be set before the lock will function normally the trigger has too much travel and is holding the sear out of position.

The trigger needs work in this case.
They function by inertia knocking the sear from the full cock notch. Not holding it out of the notch by spring pressure.
This requires a "fly" or "detent" for keep the sear from falling back into the 1/2 cock notch.

Dan

[Dogshirt]

I found the same thing on a project gun I'm working on, discovered trigger had been inlet
too deep. After I put a temporary shim under the trigger plate they function as they should.

[bgf]

Rolf,
You need some type of stop for the trigger mainspring if you don't want the trigger to push on the sear when the lock is uncocked -- you want to stop the spring pressure (but not the trigger bar) before the trigger bar touches the sear (some triggers have a screw that the spring comes to rest on, so that backlash is adjustable).  Some are set up the ways yours is currently so that a fly is not required in the lock, but it isn't ideal, and if your lock has a fly, it would be well worthwhile to set it up so that it functions as Dan describes.  Hopefully that doesn't confuse things more.  Trigger looks nice.

[greybeard]

Hi Rolf.  There is a couple of things that you can do to lower the kicker bar.>
Looking at the last pic .> where the main spring rests on the lug you can carefully grind that lug down a bit . Only remove a bit at a time untill the kicker is resting a bit lower in the plate.
    If you can't get it low enough doing that then you can carefully grind a bit off of the kicker bar where it contacts the sear. The pic shows where I had to grind a bit off the trigger bars to get them low enough.    Bob

[Dphariss]

This is a set trigger of the same basic design while it was under construction.



This is in the unset position.
There is  stop on the trigger plate that  restricts main spring travel so that it does not force the knock off so high that it contacts the trigger.



Rolf may solve his problem by a screw or a block silver soldered or welded to his trigger plate.
Dan

[Rolf]

Thank you for your replies. I agree that the problem seems to that the mainspring forces the kicker all the way down into the trigger plate.
Filing the front of the kicker won't solve this problem. If I mount  the spring on the trigger plate without the kicker in place, it still aplys pressure to the plate. As far as I can see , there is two solutions to the problem:

1. I can make a stop for the mainspring travel , like Dan suggested. It would have to soldered on. There is no room for a screw. How much does the spring have to move to trip a lock? This would determin the height of the stop.

2. I could heat and bend the mainspring so it does not put pressure on the kicker after firering. The problem is that removing this much tension from the spring , might make it to weak to trip the lock.

At the moment, I'm inclined to go with option 1.  Any comments/observations?

Best regards
Rolf

[greybeard]

Rolf; Dan is right again. My thoughts will not work and after looking at the pics again Dan has the best solution.  Solder a stop for the spring to rest on looks like the best option.  I would hesitate to weakening the spring.
Bob Reader

[Acer Saccharum]

I would be concerned with soft solder not holding, because of the impact. A silver braze would be better.

[Dphariss]

The block on the trigger pictured is part of the plate it was not attached later.
Low temp solder (under 1000-1100 F) may well fail if used to hold such a block.

Dan

[Dphariss]

Thank you for your replies. I agree that the problem seems to that the mainspring forces the kicker all the way down into the trigger plate.
Filing the front of the kicker won't solve this problem. If I mount  the spring on the trigger plate without the kicker in place, it still aplys pressure to the plate. As far as I can see , there is two solutions to the problem:

1. I can make a stop for the mainspring travel , like Dan suggested. It would have to soldered on. There is no room for a screw. How much does the spring have to move to trip a lock? This would determin the height of the stop.

2. I could heat and bend the mainspring so it does not put pressure on the kicker after firering. The problem is that removing this much tension from the spring , might make it to weak to trip the lock.

At the moment, I'm inclined to go with option 1.  Any comments/observations?

Best regards
Rolf

Stiff spring, short travel should work.
The knock off is only under spring tension for about 3/16" after its released for the trigger pictured.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

Stiff spring, short travel should work.
The knock off is only under spring tension for about 3/16" after its released for the trigger pictured.

Dan

Dan, as I understand what you're saying: The sear bar is not tripped by spring pressure, but by the momentum of the trip lever. This kind of setup allows the lock to be brought to full cock without having to set the trigger first.

[Dphariss]

Correct it is the energy of the moving knock off that does the work. It then falls away from the sear when at rest leaving it free to operate normally.
This is why a properly setup set trigger requires a lock with a fly/detent.
Dan

[Bob Roller]

I have been told that if a range officer sees someone having to set a trigger before cocking the lock,he can ask that shooter to get off his shot and then get that gun fixed so it can be fired without having to set the trigger before the lock can be cocked. Any else know about this??

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Never heard of it, Bob- but it makes perfect sense. My longrifle came with a double triggers, single throw that had to be set before they would allow cocking the hammer. I switched that trigger out for double set, double throw as I hated the dang thing.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A lot of the triggers that are illustrated so well in Jim Webb's great little book need to be set before cocking the lock.  I agree, though;  it is a poor set up as far as safety is concerned.  Still, there is no reason that a double set trigger or a single set, should need setting prior to cocking the lock, if it is built properly.