Walnut for Stock

[smart dog]

Hi,
American black walnut is not low grade wood.  It can make fine strong stocks.  Our military depended on it for many decades.

dave

[The other DWS]

Dan,  I agree with you almost entirely and absolutely in principle.  always go with the best quality of wood possible for the type of arm you are recreating.  We might quibble a mite over that last point but more as a matter of interpretation I think.
 Even the lower end originals had good solid hard and strong wood, even if plain blah-looking straight grain.  No soldier, trapper trader, Indian, or settler would willingly take a soft weakly stocked arm into the woods unless it was absolutely the only gun at hand.  There is plenty of documentation in the trade records of native americans refusing to accept arms they viewed as poor quality

[Dogshirt]

The American walnut I see today is NOT the walnut I used to see 45 years ago.
Those trees and days are gone.

[kutter]

I think everyone can agree on the "never use low quality wood" premise. That's just common sense no matter what you might be making.
There's a difference between low quality wood,  and a different choice of species for a project.

But if someone wants to stock up a gun is something other than the traditional species that gun is noted as being bedded into, who cares.
It's their time, their gun, their labor.

Trying to build a strict copy of a period piece?,,choose the correct wood, of course,,and a quality piece at that.

If I would choose to spend my time building a set of pistols as posted here and experiment with the wood/stain/color of American Walnut to mimic European species,,that'd be up to me.
Sometimes we just do stuff 'cause we like to.
I'd get a kick out it actually,,being able to get those results. Life ain't all serious. There's plenty of that around too.
A fine looking set of pistols all around..

[woodsrunner]

Dr. Tim,

You may rest assured that vast amounts of American Black Walnut (ABW) (Juglans nigra) was shipped to Europe from the Colonial Period through the early 1930's for gunstock material. This is well documented and anyone knowledgable of researching on the Web will find this. The Germans, especially, liked to stock with American Black Walnut finding it superior to European Walnut (Juglans regia). Virtually all German military weapons-shotguns and rifles-in the WWI era were stocked with ABW. And, German WWII K98k's up until about 1935 or so were stocked with it also. It was the loss of ABW on the eve of WWII that caused the German arms industry to start with laminated wood for stocks. Then late in the War, late 1944ish, you suddenly find some 98k's again stocked with ABW that had been hoarded back primarily by Mauser for top-end pieces. Roughly made and thrown togather 98k's with beautiful ABW stocks!  Take a look at high-end Deutsch pieces, Oberndorf Mausers, J.P.Sauer und Sohn and other upper end manufacturers of the late 1800's-early 1900's and you're much more likely to see ABW than European.

There are a number of factors that will influence/govern the quality of any one specific species of hardwood, and none of these have been mentioned to any degree. ABW, for example. Here where I am located is just about the most Southern tip of its natural range. I have logged a lot of it out over the years, and all of my kitchen cabinets as well as a room and a lot of trim are panaled with ABW that I logged. Beautiful to look at, but I wouldn't give you .15c for a gunstock made out of it. But....I have a couple of rifles that Dave Dodds made for me that are stocked out of ABW from the Upper Pen. of Michigan, hand selected by Wayne Dunlap, and you will not find a more superior piece of wood for a stock. Where a tree grows will have a big influence on the wood quality. European Walnut grows from England across Southern Scandanavia to central Russia and south through the Medeterrian, Greece, etc, to Spain and Portugal. The quality in one area will not be the same as in another area of its natural range.

Some years ago I was selected/scheduled to go into an area of Africa to "build a sawmill and cut/ship lumber to Europe". I studied about 15-18 different species of tropical hardwoods that I was to saw, and I can tell you that 3-4 of these would make gunstocks superior to most woods that we use. I don't know why these aren't selected and used now for stocks. Maybe these species just aren't available on the market.

[westbj2]

Just some thoughts.
American Walnut.  If you have had a chance to examine Winchester wood from the period of 1870-1900, it is apparent that quality and quantity was widely available. The majority is dense, close grained and in the higher grades almost always quarter sawn.
Unfortunately this quality of American is nearly impossible to find today.  A couple of years ago I needed a piece of wood for a restock of an antique action.  I ordered from 3 suppliers (with the option of return) and ended up sending all 3 back.  They just did not compare to original wood in terms of density and small pores.  Finally found a piece from Utah of all places that had grown at an altitude of 7800 ft.  It was comparable to the "old" wood but the seller knew that too in terms of price which was comparable to English.
In the " Manton Book " series, Vol 1 and 2, there is reprint of an inventory ledger entry made at the time of Joe's death.  Interestingly, the cost of stock blanks was only exceeded by the cost of barrels, a set of the beautiful locks was down at 3rd or 4th in the value assigned to shotgun components.  Why was this the case? Not sure but here is a good possibility.  The upper end of the gun trade was only interested in dry, stable and if available rather fancy cuts. They competed with furniture and cabinet makers to obtain high quality material, purchased primarily from specialty wood brokers/dealers.  The dealers in turn, needed to supply assured quality which meant very selective inventory properly seasoned and aged.
Return on investment after 30 or 40 years of inventory likely accounts in some part for the seemingly high cost.
About 20 years ago, a customer came into the shop who was also a maker of high end Violin bows....N.Y. Philharmonic customers among others.  He had just left the airport customs office after picking up a newly arrived piece of wood for a commissioned bow.  The piece (about 2 inches square and 30 inches long) was stamped in Italian with the suppliers name and was serialized and dated 1923.  Cost?  $1150.00  Perhaps some of this scenario applied to the wood that the gun trade used.
Jim Westberg