A couple of original flint locks for ID

[Dennis Glazener]

A friend of mine sent me these lock photos to see if anyone could id them or give thoughts about their origin.

[smart dog]

Hi Dennis,
The first lock is most likely English, late 18th century.  It looks very much like the style used by John Twigg, although the locks of many other makers look similar.  I believe the second lock is from Italy.  It is like the Spanish miquelet but the mainspring presses on the toe of the cock rather than pushing up on the heel like the Spanish lock. Spanish makers tended to criticize that feature claiming it was weak.  It is called a "Roman" lock and was made in northern and central Italy, and Portugal.   The Poruguese call them "Anselmo" locks in the Roman style.  It is likely early 18th century.  

dave

[JV Puleo]

The top lock is English, late 18th or (more probably) early 19th century. Its not a "London" quality lock and almost certainly came from B'ham. It is, however, one of the medium quality B'ham locks, suitable to an American long rifle. The best B'ham locks are indistinguishable from London locks... arguably B'ham is where most of the best London locks were actually made by 1790. The "low quality" B'ham locks rarely have bridles on the tumbler or frizzen and are almost always seen on fowlers and pistols, very rarely (if ever) on rifles. My own feeling is (and this is what I call "informed conjecture") because rifles were significantly more expensive than fowlers, rifle makers were loath to put a really cheap lock on one. It may also be that the general customer for a rifle knew the difference and wouldn't likely accept a cheap lock.

Joe Puleo

[Dennis Glazener]

Joe,
Smartdog,
Thanks for the info. I hope my friend steps in and gives a little background on the locks. I know that the English is a large lock about 6 inches long, I thought it was similiar to a lock of mine but mine is only about 4 15/16 long.

Thanks
Dennis

[smart dog]

Hi Dennis,
I am sure Joe is bang on about the English lock.  The roller bearing on the feather spring was a late 18th century innovation but the lack of a stirrup for the mainspring and tumbler suggests the lock is of average quality for the time period.  It is certainly not of the standard used by the best makers (like Twigg or Manton) on their first quality guns.

dave

[Howard]

The first lock is 1.1 by 6 inches long. I purchased a military pistol that had this lock in it. This was a parts pistol . The pistol was chromed all over the parts including this lock.  I pulled the lock off & stripped the chrome off & sold the pistol keeping the lock. The second lock I purchased in the early 70's from the man who brought it home from WWII. They were in Germany & gathered up all the arms in this castle to be destroyed. He put the lock in his rucksack before they ran the guns over with the tanks set them on fire & had them buried.  He pulled this lock off & brought it home & gave it to his father who built muzzleloaders.