Need to learn to solder

[Cory Joe Stewart]

My dad wants me to help him build a Chamber's smooth rifle kit.  Which means I need to learn to solder underlugs and sights to a round barrel.  I have looked at the tutorials. 

My question is what all do I need to get to be set up for that. 

Coryjoe

[ddoyle]

silver and a source of heat is the short answer.

A propane torch, flux and a commercial  solder along with a piece of wire or clamp to hold you pieces in alignment is the long answer. Track of the Wolf or you local harware store/jeweller can provide you with the materials.  

A solder joint is/can be very, very strong (IIRC able to withstand 10,000 PSI) A lot of  this strength is dependent on a close fit between pieces.

You can easily learn the skill of soldering to complete your Dad's project. Go to a primary source i.e a published book and read up on it. Once you learn the possibilities you will find uses for solder that you never knew you had!  I urge the primary source education as I have read some pretty wrong things about solder joints on the internet My favorite is that you need space in the joint for the solder

That being said if you have a chance at getting good info on the net this is the most likely place.

[Curtis]

Here is your secret weapon.  SWIF 95 SOLDER and a propane torch is all you need.  Strong, quick and easy!!!!  Best stuff ever since sliced bread was invented.  Well worth the cost, and a little goes a long way.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6903/Product/SWIF-95-SOLDER

[Dave Faletti]

HI Force 44  from Brownells also works well.   I use the regular temp version which is silver and tin.   I would avoid the high temp version. Its Cadmium and silver.  Not too hard to do.  There have been a number of posts on the how to that maybe you can find on a search.

[Bob Roller]

I'm on an autombile forum that has a fellow that says if you get them REALLY clean,you can solder an ice cube to Teflon.

Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

Silver solder is super strong but there are alot of muzzleloding gun building aplications that regular solder is ok  for and involves less heat. Study up on it and use the one that works best for the particular job at hand.   Smylee

[b bogart]

Ice cube & teflon? New Rap Group??

Seriously Bob what kind of flux does he use

[Bob Roller]

Probably blueberry pancake syrup.

Bob

[caliber45]

I agree with Curtis: SWIF from Brownells. It's a paste and does away the need for all that useless, irritating solder "ritual" (tinning, etc.). I love it! -- paulallen, greencastle, IN

[Ben I. Voss]

"Ice cube and teflon" "blueberry pancake syrup"?!! Bob, you crack me up! I think you're spending too much time wearing an "opti-visor"?

[Bob Roller]

No "optivisor",only a sense of humor that run the preposterous edges of the dark side.

Bob

[Eric Krewson]

Solder paste from Lowe's, super easy, strong and you can't knock off what you soldered on with a hammer(I tried, just to see how strong the bond was.).

Put the paste on your underlug and barrel, clamp the underlug in place, heat for a few seconds with a propane torch until you see the paste turn to solder and you are done, fool proof.

[Eric Krewson]

One other thing, if you use a simple C clamp, recheck your underlug alignment after you clamp the underlug down to solder it. Even clamped you can tap the underlug around a bit if it wandered off your centerline while being clamped.

I didn't notice my first attempt got slightly off the center line when I soldered it. I could have taken it off and realigned it but left it slightly off, no problem but I could have done it neater.

[omark]

Solder paste from Lowe's, super easy, strong and you can't knock off what you soldered on with a hammer(I tried, just to see how strong the bond was.).

Put the paste on your underlug and barrel, clamp the underlug in place, heat for a few seconds with a propane torch until you see the paste turn to solder and you are done, fool proof.

eric dont say foolproof because "fools are so !@*%&@ ingenious".   

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

These new solder pastes are terrific where low temp solder is appropriate! 

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Dr. Boone,

Is there anyplace it would not be appropriate??

Is flux needed with these pastes??

Coryjoe

[Eric Krewson]

These pastes are mid strength between soft and silver solder. The flux is in the paste so you don't have to flux your parts.

One thing you do have to do is fit the lug pretty well to the place on the barrel you want to attach it. You do this by wrapping a piece of sand paper around your barrel and sliding the lug back and forth on the sandpaper until the inside base of the lug has the same curvature as the barrel.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

 If I were soldering a broken trigger guard together I would use high temp silver solder.  If I were putting lugs on a barrel or some fromsite blades I would use this low temp solder.... I would never want to get my barrel to the temp required for silver solder.

So it is an issue of how much abuse the joint will take.... lugs on a barrel just hang some lightweight wood under it.

[kutter]

I still use 50/50 or 60/40 soft solder for most everything including ribs on SxS's.

I've used the Force 44(sp?) from Brownells quite alot too. Takes a bit more heat but still under 500F IIRC.
The thing I don't care about the Brownells and any of the 'no-lead' solders is that they stay silver bright.

They're advertised that way in some instances. The lead alloy solders do oxidize to a deep grey color and look right on the older guns with a little use or some time.
A small point but I feel it makes a difference if the solder joint line shows.

Tinning is easiest on light weight parts with an electric soldering gun. I still use an ancient WEN soldering gun to tin most parts.
Quick and easy and no chance to over heat as with a torch to burn the flux.
I even use it to tin the full length SxS ribs and the bbls before putting the things back together.
The soldering gun doesn't quite have the heat to tin the bbls from the forend lug back to the breech,,but everything else is done quick and easily with it.
Then a torch to bring everything up to temp and get the solder to flow. Tightening and making small adjustments to the clamps as needed.
Things will go off kilter a tiny bit after the solder melts and flows between the parts and the clamping pressure is no releived. A good reason to tin correctly (as thin as possible) and have parts fitted as closely as possible.

Hard solder (silver solder) I save for repairing parts or making up a part. Once in a  while I'll use it to attach a front sight base to a c/f rifle bbl.
Too much heat need for the application in most cases to make me use it on alot of critical gun parts.

I braze repair some small parts. It'll stand up to (re)case hardening so a rebuilt part can be rehardened even after the extreme heat of the braze repair is bone.

The solders in paste form, both soft and hard solder, are handy to use. Just don't lull yourself into not fitting the parts closely to begin with or not doing a perfect cleaning job prior to application.

Most attempts to solder using a torch fail from the application of too much heat IMHO.
It's very easy to over heat the steel of brass with even a propane torch much less an acetylene, burning the flux.
Even 60/40 only needs something short of 400F IIRC to flow. That comes around very quickly on thin barrels and parts.
Some of the no-lead/low-temp stuff is well below that.
 

[FL-Flintlock]

A few things worth mentioning...

Low-temp "solder" has a melting point below 450°F but the "flow" temp can often be well above that of a hight-temp solder.  IE: A particular solder is labeled as "high-strength low-temp" with the emphasis put on the 448°F melt-temp but the flow-temp is 595°F.  Although this alloy is advertised as having an ultimate tensile strength of 6980 psi, a closer look shows that is only achieved in a tight fitting long pattern Cu to Cu joint and it's not recommended for use on any non-Cu alloy.

Common paste solders typically produce joints with a tensile strength 30-60% lower than that produced by the solid form of a similar solder alloy.  IE: Alloy X in solid form produces 6560 psi ultimate tensile on a Cu to Cu joint while the paste form can only achieve 4275 psi.

One must also pay attention to the solder/braze alloy composition as most are not suitable for use on  non-Cu base alloys; some are labeled as being for dissimilar metals but digging a little deeper one finds that Fe based alloys are specifically excluded.  Dissimilar and Fe based alloys require solder/braze alloys that are compatible as one may not be able to knock an underlug off a barrel when the joint is made but the joint will be greatly weakened or fail at some later date without any undo external force being required.

All silver-bearing solders are not created equal, there are more than 40 common alloy compositions to choose from and another 30 or more if one wishes to dig into the highly specialized categories.  A particular low-temp silver-bearing solder alloy sold by a major retailer shows its "calculated" ultimate tensile ratings and those only for a Cu-Cu joint rather than the average test result ratings for the Fe based alloys it's being marketed for use on.  I prefer not taking chances, I'll stick with my solid wire silver-bearing alloy that carries actual test ratings on Fe based alloys rather than sales-hype.