Wasp nest wadding

[omark]

my ex had a hornet sting her on an artheitic toe and it felt better for yrs. didnt do a @!*% thing for her libido, though. or anything else for that matter, come to think of it,    well, better be quiet now,,,,   mark    where do you get stung to help your libido by the way???  have a different wife now.   ok, shut up omar,,,

[Daryl]

As many have stated, each gun must be treated as an individual.  They have their OWN ikes and dislikes - which must be found through experimentation.

[ddoyle]

For what it is worth regarding the fire proofness: I recently tried to show off this trait, had a big sheet of it in my hand touched an open flame to it and burst into a fire ball! This may have been from a ground hornets nest or it may have been a rear guard booby trap left by spitey hornets on their winter retreat? Either way maybe test the 'asbestos' qualities if relying on it in dry conditions.

[Daryl]

I believe the original supposition about being like asbestos came from Sam Fadala's initial expose' in his Black Powder digest, back when he first started learning about black powder, he was having trouble with burned patches (too thin, of course), called the patches antigasgets and tried wasps nest as a barrier wad. He noted it was like asbestos when used as the wad and gave the powder flames something to work on and leave his patches alone.  His accuracy and velocity improved, which proved to him cloth patches cannot seal and actually work against sealing, or something like that drivel.

Lots of times, we're prone to repeating what someone we trust says, as fact even when we actually haven't done it ourselves.  A minor misterpretation of the original word and more than minor mistakes can be made.

Anyone who's held a burning straw broom to a wasps nest knows how much like asbestos they are or aren't.

[Carper]

My Grandpa showed me how to load a squirrel rifle in the late 1960's. He told me to put a hunk of hornet nest on top of charge and pack it down a little before seating a patched ball on top of it. He said that it would absorb any of the lube on the patch instead of it deadening some of the powder and it would keep the patch from setting the setting the woods on fire when you are shooting almost straight up at treed squirrels. He said that his Dad showed him how to handle a rifle before a car was invented. I have used wasp nest about all the time  and lots of times shooting at targets would find the patch with the compessed disc of nest sandwiched behind it showing no sign of fire or flame. When you shoot upwards it is easy to see the sometimes see the  patch float back to earth and I have seen some several of them fanning a little ember on the drift down, lots of time you will see a tissue paper "wad" it a little spark as it falls back. I would use no wad for squirrel hunting if paper as all I had. I don't know it its the compression that causes the nest to sheild the fire and not be afire because I too have set many nests ablaze with a long pole and a combustible soaked rag.  Johnny

[Daryl]

That will be the physics of it.

[Mad Monk]

I believe the original supposition about being like asbestos came from Sam Fadala's initial expose' in his Black Powder digest, back when he first started learning about black powder, he was having trouble with burned patches (too thin, of course), called the patches antigasgets and tried wasps nest as a barrier wad. He noted it was like asbestos when used as the wad and gave the powder flames something to work on and leave his patches alone.  His accuracy and velocity improved, which proved to him cloth patches cannot seal and actually work against sealing, or something like that drivel.

Lots of times, we're prone to repeating what someone we trust says, as fact even when we actually haven't done it ourselves.  A minor misterpretation of the original word and more than minor mistakes can be made.

Anyone who's held a burning straw broom to a wasps nest knows how much like asbestos they are or aren't.

Keep in mind that Sam was writing that stuff back in the 1970's.  It was a time of reinventing the wheel as far as ml guns went.
Sam was friends with a writer by the name of C.P. "Woody" Wood who lived at Falling Waters, WVA.  My wife and I used to visit Woody and his wife on a regular basis.  In freezing weather I would go out with him in the woods collecting paper wasp nests.  Then we would sit down and sip a beer while tearing them apart to remove dormant wasps and egg clusters.

There was much debate at that time if a lead ball truly obturated in the bore during the acceleration of the ball in the bore.
If you look at technical papers on firearms you may see a comment to the effect that no projectile ever seals the bore, against gas leakage, at any point in the bore.  Some showed high-speed photographs of puffs of propellant gases exiting the muzzle before the projectile.  In military artillery you will see a foam wad right behind the projectile.  most of the artillery use a copper driving band around the projectile to engage the rifling in rifled bores.  The foam wad directly behind the projectile is described ads a "frictionless obturator".  Its function is to limit the amount of gases blowing around the projectile.  In effect.  The wadding discussed here performs the same action.

There was a lot of debate as to how well a cloth patch works in reducing or eliminating gases leaking around the accelerating ball.
Think on the old post WWII pumps used for bicycle tires., etc.  A plunger in a tube.  On the end of the plunger was a leather disk with something of a cup shape.  When you pushed down on the pump the curled edges of the leather washer expanded against the wall of the tube and compressed the air in the tube as a result.  But when you pulled the plunger back up the raised lips would not seal against the "bore" of the tube and allow air to go around it.  To be compressed with the next downward stoke.  That has some relationship to the cloth patch around the ball.  The patch is pointing in the wrong direction to act as a seal.  It simply takes up space between the ball and the bore walls.  In a rifled gun the patch material is forced into the rifling grooves give a grip for the twisting action and to a small degree reducing the amount of gases escaping around the ball.  Then of course it is acting like a lube applicator.

E. Ogre

[Daryl]

Sam's premise was originated by his chrono'd results which showed higher velocities with a wad of wasp nest or patching material placed between the ball and powder.  This happened in his rifle, or rifles with the ball and patch combinations he was using.   He spoke of this and wrote up this 'proof' even naming the patches as antigasgets in magazines and digests.   

At that time, there were many of us shooting BP without needing wads for sealing, nor needing the bores wiped while shooting extended strings of shots.  Our patches shows no burns as his did.  In questioning Sam's writings with John Baird, editor of the National Association of Primitive Riflemen's magazine, John said this to me over the phone:

 " Heh, heh (chuckled)-  'Ol Sam's making his living from writing and he's chosen to write about black powder.   He's on a lonnnnnnng learning streak, is all. He'll learn".