How many grains of 2F to start with?

[Martin_G]

A buddy of mine isn't real computer saavy so I offered to find out information for him. On a 54 cal. flintlock what would be the best load of 2F to start with so you can work up loads for target & hunting.

This is his first ever experience with a black powder rifle and the first time owning one, and so I hope I didn't forget to add anything about shooting or more importantly, the Safety Issues!

I told him to get 2F & 3F (for priming) either GOEX or SWISS black powder (but don't use synthetic) and start with the smallest amount of powder that is recommended by the manufacturer, then add 5 grains at a time (start with about 60-65 grains ) . One suggestion of mine was to keep a written account of what size ball, patches, and amount of powder that you started with, distance to target, the results after each shot,etc..

Although it can be a PITA keeping an account of progress I think that it can become invaluable.

Also, will different diameter balls & patch thickness effect the POI @50 yds or is this usually negligible?
 
One area that I was very adamant about was SAFETY whether at the range or out hunting! I have been through this with him a million times to make sure it sinks in! He does great with modern stuff and I told him that while there are very small similarities, ML's are a different animal altogether.

I explained about why you should NEVER EVER load right from the can the powder comes in because of the possibility of an explosion AND severe damage to you or anyone close by, and it could possibly result in death from shrapnel.

(Use an "accurate" powder measure)
(Use a much smaller container like small chalk line bottles,1 for prime & 1 for main charge until you get the proper items!)
(Never put you eye over the muzzle while loading!)
(Never point the muzzle except in the direction you are shooting-same goes for loading!)
(If you have a hang-fire keep it pointed downrange)

Although these are common sense rules to live by, you might be surprised by how many people don't have the capacity for common sense

I would like to hear suggestions about different loads from minimum to max. And please LMK if I forgot anything regarding SAFETY ISSUES!



Thanks,

Martin


PS: If I've left anything off thats especially important, I can be contacted by PM or at my email, mgill49@yahoo.com THX!

[smylee grouch]

Start with 55 gr. 2f and work up to 90-100.  Smylee

[Al Lapp]

I found with my .54 I had to go to at least 70 grs of 2f to get half decent accuracy. But then I do most of my shooting at 100 yds. Also make sure no one is standing on the pan side of the gun when he touches off if its a flintlock.   Al

[roundball]

I got into the habit of trying a new ML at the range just using the old rule of thumb of approximately "the caliber" as a powder charge starting point for range plinking at 25yds, getting it broken in, getting used to it, making sure everything works correctly, etc...for the .54cal I used 60grns Goex 3F.

There are published load data charts, and one that's commonly available is from T/C.
(shows a range of powder charges for their .54cal PRBs from 60 - 120grns Goex 2F)
Personal experience is that I've never seen any significant changes at the target from only a 5grn change in powder charge so I always use 10grn increments, but that just me.

And I follow the other old rule of thumb...don't bother with sights, or worry about "where" the group prints on the target during the first range trip or two...just concentrate on "getting" good groups...then later dedicate a range session to filing sights for a permanent load.
(if windage is off a little, that's easy to tweak of course and its not permanent so he can do that first trip out if he needs/wants to)
Personal opinion is to use 3F for main, and 4F for prime as they're faster and cleaner burning powders but to each their own.

If I'm shooting from a table or bench like that, something I do to make range trips easier / more efficient is to premeasure the charges at the house into 35mm film canisters...seal 50 of them in a 2.5 gallon Ziploc bag.
Then to minimize the chance of dry balling/double charging/double balling I lay out one shot's worth of components on the table:
One charge, one patch, one ball...then load.

He should have a good strong range rod, and appropriate attachments to handle dry balls, etc.

[Ron T.]

You've gotten some excellent advice so far... so here's the Goex Site to which you can go and check out their loading chart for any caliber including the .54 caliber round balls.

http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

Click on the appropriate section's name and write down the powder charges & muzzle velocities.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[ken]

It all depends on the gun and darrel lenth. Rate of twist, ball and patch size. YES keep a log it really helps. At our club an older gent shoots a 54 with only 50 grains and is a consistant winner. My own would not group well till I got to about 65grains (2f in both guns)  As you go up the group will closeup at optamine then open up or stay the same, either way go back to optamine Always check your patches they tell a lot of the story In three 54s I never had to go pass 80grains of 2f for target or hunting  GOOD LUCK

[Vomitus]

  4F is better prime.Away quicker.

[Daryl]

YES keep a log it really helps.

I agree all the way - a recording of what you try, when you try it is very important.

Being a person who is not agreeable to high trajectories and load every rifle I have to get the best accuracy the rifle will provide, I'd not use less than 85gr. 2f and I'd probably end up well over 100gr. before reaching a load I'd use for hunting or target shooting past 50yards.  I've never had a .54, but have had about every other calibre and at least 5 or maybe 6 .58's over the years. Except for the 48" twist Enfield, they all preferred a lot more powder than what ahs been suggested so far.

I prefer 2F in .50's and above. For me, they record much closer shot to shot velocities and that means better consistancy of pressure, which shows a potential for better accuracy.

Let the rifle tell you what it needs to shoot well. I see no reason to start below 85gr., if the rifle has a round ball twist.

[Martin_G]

Thanks to all of you for the excellent advice! Now we know where to start loads at !



Thanks,

Martin


PS: BTW, the barrel is a 1 in 60 or 66, and 32" long

[Dphariss]

I agree with Daryl. I never shot less than 90 gr in a 54 and this was Swiss FFF.
55 grains is less than I shoot in 9" barrel 54 pistol.

Dan

[Martin_G]

I've read here on the forum that you generally reduce the powder charge if you're using SWISS in place of GOEX.

How would you determine how much to reduce a charge, and is this based on the charge size only or the powder grade (2F, 3F,etc) as well?


 

[Herb]

See page 3 of my post "Testing .40 Patches & Velocities" at the head of this column.  Swiss is much denser than Goex powder, just as Pyrodex or Triple 7 is lighter.  When the weather allows, I'll shoot weighed amounts of each black powder over my chronograph and graph the results.  But right now I don't know how much Swiss 2F it takes for the same velocity relative to a charge of Goex 2F.

[blunderbuss]

  I've killed alot of deer with my .54 flint Jaeger useing 75 gr ffg

[Swampwalker]

Shot my .54 Saturday at 100 yards - excellent accuracy with 90 gr. 2F GOEX, .534 cast ball, thick ticking patch, oiled.  The barrel is a GM.