Rear sights

[Ted Kramer]

I'm building an early rifle on the order of the Edward Marshall rifle. Been looking at rear sights and will go with a Jaeger style. But I am wondering if any of you have used one of the Jaeger sights with a second, taller fold-up leaf. The rifle will be used for deer hunting but also will see some use at shooting matches in which the occasional longer-than-hunting-range shot will be made. I thought maybe the fold-up leaf would be better than KY elevation. Any thoughts/experience? Thanks!
Ted K

[JDK]

Ted, You might be better served by posting this question in the Black Powder Shooting forum.  J.D.K.

[Ted Kramer]

Thanks JDK.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

The only shoots that I ever participated in for traditional ML Rifles were FIXED open sights only. Better check to see if adjustable sights are permitted at the range/club you are planning on shooting at.

[Ted Kramer]

The matches I'd use it in are informal silhouette shoots held here at my farm or at a couple of my friends places. If at a match where the folding leaf sight was not allowed, I'd just use another rifle with a fixed rear sight.

[Daryl]

The folding leaf is a standard around here by a couple of us. Taylor has a standing and single folding leaf sight on his Jaeger as well as his Jacob Kuntz rifle.   The sight on the Kuntz is an exact copy of the original, which is mounted on a rifle in the Museum of Natural History in New York. We don't care if you are folding leaf sights here, or at Hefley. I have one on my 14 bore rifle as well as on the Kodiak double rifle.

[Daryl]

Check this out, google express sights or go to z-hat's site.
Of course you don't have to buy the base that is for a small diameter round barrel.  They are available with 1, 2 or 3 leafs.  That gives 2, 3 or 4 sights. File them in for the ranges applicable to your shooting. On my .69, they are for 100, 150 and 200yards. With the light plinking load (85gr.), they are sighted for 50, 100 and 150yards - just the way they worked out on that rifle. These sights are quite inexpensive - less than $100.00 for the 1 or 2 leaf - and only $100.00 for the 3 leaf sight. I bought mine, a 3 leaf & same make from Brownells in 1986 and it cost me $96.00 at that time. They have not increased much in price.

[Swampwalker]

Daryl, I would be very interested in seeing a picture of the Kuntz folding sight - either a picture of the original or Taylor's interpretation.  Thanks!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's a couple of pics of the original and my copy.  The original is in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY, Daryl, and was photographed by Tom Curran and Eric Von Auschwege (sorry Eric if I butchered the spelling).
I do not know if there is a spring in the original, but I put one into the base of mine, so that the leaf snaps up and down, and stays there.  Also, I have no idea at what range it is zeroed, but I suspect it's over 200 yards.
Incidentally, I lost points at Dixon's Fair for the sight...not traditional Lehigh Co.

[Ted Kramer]

Thanks for the info and pictures guys.

The leaf flopping around was one of my concerns but a spring would sure fix that.

Taylor, did you just mill a recess in the underside of the base to hold one end of the spring and then the other end bears against the underside of the leaf?

Ted

[Daryl]

Yeah - that's the place - the 'Natural History" is in DC isn't it?

[Chris Treichel]

Track sells a Germanic looking casting of a sight with one leaf for about $20. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=767&partNum=RS-JAEG-2

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=767&partNum=RS-LP-K

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Track sells a Germanic looking casting of a sight with one leaf for about $20. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=767&partNum=RS-JAEG-2

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=767&partNum=RS-LP-K

Its nice, I have one on a 1750 English stalking rifle I am finally about to finish.

[Daryl]

Track has several, actually, very cheap, which is good, and low to the barrel - for less filing. Not sure if any have the pivot rod - or if you have to drill them yourself - no big deal.

The custom made sights as finished, except for the outside & are of superior quality- but probably not what a pre 1820 rifle should have.

[Ted Kramer]

I remember putting one of those sights together (drilling the long hole and pinning it) for an Ed. Marshall rifle I built about 10-12 years ago for a guy who used to come to our shoots. It seemed to go together alright as I remember it and the last time I talked to him he was still using it although I never asked him if the leaf had gotten loose enough to begin flopping around. Never thought of the spring idea back then.

I live about 90 minutes from Track and go there quite often for parts. I'll have a look in person at what they have for the folding sights next time I'm there. The rifle is still in the shape of a plank with a barrel inlet so it'll be a while before sights are needed.

Ted K.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Ted, the spring is held in a shallow recess in the rear part of the sight - the front end 'floating'  It pushes up on the excentric base of the leaf.  The spring is from a clock - is very thin, and since it's so short, it's lots stiff enough.  I remember removing a little barrel steel in the barrel's dovetail to allow spring clearance.

[Dave Faletti]

Taylor.  Can the spring be replaced without removing the sight body? Just wondering if the spring broke if it could be changed by just removing the pin for the leaf.  Been thinking of making a sight like that I just haven't got around to figuring the details and dimensions.

[Swampwalker]

Taylor, thanks for posting the pictures.  Very interesting!  I remember looking at your rifle at Dixons, but I did not notice the sight.  Fantastic rifle! 
Has anybody seen similar sights on original longrifles from other areas?