Attic Find, and did not know what I had until I got it home, H. Sheetz

[AntiqueGuns]

I bought this gun in a batch of other guns, and no maker marking was visible at all, and I assumed it had no maker mark.  It was not until we cleaned the spot on the barrel that the name popped out. I posted 4 additional photos.  The long patchbox lid is an optical illusion.  The lid is bent and so it does not lie flat.  It is very slightly longer, that is because the there is wear in the patch box hinge.




079-212-0113B, ATTIC FIND, H Sheetz, Full Stock Percussion Rifle, with patchbox showing 4 petal Edelweiss,  which some Sheetz rifles showed. This is a full stock with tiger striped maple stock and in .45 cal, with 42 3/4 inch barrel.  It is smooth bore, so probably bored out for buck and ball or small game.  Several well done, copper plate repairs to stock hear lock. The forearm has 4 slots for keys, and one has solid silver mounting. Functional trigger, the lock is a percussion lock. This may be a conversion, due to the maker, Sheetz was from Shenandoah Valley, and died in 1825. He was part of a large family of gun makers with the Sheetz name from this region. Overall coated in heavy patina and I did not find the name, until I cleaned some surface residue away. It has several sliver chips along the forearm. It has a silver starburst on cheek rest. No stock carving. Very good overall. It has been untouched for over 100 years. These photos have been looked at by Shelby Gallien and his is undecided if original percussion or converted from flint.

[nord]

A great find without question. Given what I can see I'd call original percussion. Obviously I can't totally rule out flint, but the general style of the rifle tells me that it's well past Golden Age as does what I can see of the lock.

One thing I'd caution against is any attempt to tie this wonderful rifle to the Civil War with little or no provenance to back it up. The smooth bore doesn't in my opinion lead to any conclusion other than the obvious... It's a smooth bore. Possibly rifled at one time and now smooth.

What I'm getting at is that your rifle stands on its own and needs nothing to bolster its status. Certainly it could have been used in the Civil War by a combatant. But it also could have been used to put food on the table during that time of trouble... Which is probably much more likely.

In either case your rifle saw a lot of history. It was made by hands that either witnessed the Revolution or were familiar with those who served. It's maker saw the War of 1812. The rifle itself has seen the introduction of the locomotive, the invention of the telegraph, man's first flight, and so much more. That in itself is an impressive enough resume. 

[Shreckmeister]

Great rifle.  I really like the patina on those wrist repairs.  Somebody spent alot of time
with that rifle and obviously loved it enough to extend it's service with the repairs.  Don't
touch a thing.  My guess is originally percussion only because I've never seen a flinter with
a single lock bolt.  Can anyone post a flinter like that?

[The other DWS]

probably a dumb newbie-typee question, but here goes.  Why does the patchbox lid extend beyond the curve of the buttplate?  photo-optical illusion? 
Its a really fascinating "rifle" and the repairs and the effort put into making them really interests me.  It took a lot of time and effort to get it right and shows either a real desire to preserve an heirloom or an critical need to keep that old arm functioning

[JTR]

DWS, Look at the next to last picture, and you'll see that the PB door is open a bit, and twisted. The pic where it looks like the door is hanging out of the butt plate is just the camera angle and the slightly open door.

As for original flint or percussion, one thing that jumps out at me is the poor fit of the lock around the percussion drum. So, either the gun was originally flint and has had a poor conversion to percussion,,, but then I've don't remember seeing single bolt flints. Although some say they exist.
Or, the lock isn't original to the gun. This is a possibility since the gun been broken through that area, so there would be a fair change the lock was lost or broken when the wood was broken.

Either way, the gun is a fine find! Thanks for showing the pictures, and if you feel like it, post a few more!

John

[WElliott]

It has been my observation that later flintlock rifles made in the deep South often had just one lock bolt.  I can't say that that holds true in the Valley of Virginia. But I would not make a judgment as to whether it was originally flint based on that evidence alone.

[G-Man]

Nice rifle - do you have a close up of the lock/mortise area?  If the repair has not obliterated it, you might be able to see the slight remnants of a notch in the wood for clearance of hte back of the flint hammer if the gun was originally flint.  I can't tell from the photos but it almost looks to me like something is there.

Possible the trigger was replaced when the barrel was bored out smooth(?).  I would normally expect double set triggers on a Sheets piece like this.  

Guy  

[AeroE]

Please add a close up of the lock and lock panel.  Forearm details, too.

[Swampwalker]

The Whisker books on Virginia guns show at least one flintlock with only one lock bolt.  I believe it was made by one of the Sheetz/Sheets clan.
Great find, I've always loved the Sheets rifles.

[Swampwalker]

Thanks for adding the lock picture. To me it clearly looks like the lock is not orignial to the rifle - look at the upper front molding (above the nose of the lock plate).  It clearly appears truncated.  Also, on a Sheets rifle of this period you would expect one of those small late period import Birmingham locks - not this long Germanic style.

[smokinbuck]

I have to agree that this does not look like the original lock.  The plate does not fit the mortice well, as a Sheetz would,  the wood to the rear of the plate looks to be a different piece than the wrist area above the mortice and the lock plate definitley looks like it had been a flint lock with the pan removed. Just my 2 cents.
Mark

[alex e.]

At the tail of the lock there looks like a wood filler/patch of some sort.

[JTR]

There's a lot of old guns out there with non original locks, and I don't think the one on this gun detracts from it at all.

The old thing has good name on the barrel, a fine patchbox, a great attic patina, an amazing repair, maybe a double repair, and the lock fits in nicely with it being a long used rifle that was kept going no matter what.

And if it ends up for sale, I'd be happy to buy it!

John

[JIM FRANCIS]

HERE'S MY ONE BOLTER.  THIS IS ON A VA. RIFLE I OWN

[Bob Roller]

That is SOME attic find! That lock is beautiful and the nut fastened cock is English. The single screw is fine IF the inletting is really right and tight and the frizzen doesn't make up half the weight of the lock. The forward slam of the frizzen will transfer whatever energy it can to where ever it can and if the inlet is sloppy,it will rock the lock. Sounds like a song title doesn't it?

  Daryl,thanks for the back up on the perchlorated powders. A friend of mine shot some in his Ruger Blackhawk 44 Magnum and  cleaned the gun really well and it survived. The empty brass turned a really wierd shade of green and were uncleanable. By the way,I remember quite well the corrosive ammo of another time and there were millions of rounds of all kinds from every military on earth forsale for years and still is. It apparently has a long life because I shot some 8x57 in a G43 last Summer that still fired and it was made the same year I was.1936  It was RWS manufacture.
I have said many times both verbally and in print,if I can't get real black powder,I will quit shooting anything but 22LR. I still have old DuPont that is good and GOEX and about one can of Curtis&Harvey. I bought the C&H as a collectors item and will not shoot it. I know the early runs of GOEX had problems but I have heard no gripes about it in years. The Swiss and other imports are no doubt excellent but I won't support them because I well remember 1971 when our sport/hobby activity nearly died when DuPont quit black powder and finally.GOEX stepped in and started up the manufacture of black powder again and saved us from extinction.

Bob Roller

[flintriflesmith]

On my computer the picture of the lock on the Sheets was really distorted. This is another copy of it.



The lock looks like  it might not be a standard commercially available lock -- maybe it was locally made. It also looks like it was always percussion and, to me, likely to be original to the rifle.

Also what looked like a patch in the wood behind the lock now looks like the copper repairs were tricking our eyes.

[Dennis Glazener]

The lock looks like  it might not be a standard commercially available lock -- maybe it was locally made. It also looks like it was always percussion and, to me, likely to be original to the rifle.

That might be the original lock but it sure looks to me like the nose of that lock has been shortened and the lock mortise/lock panel area has been altered to accept a wider lock.

Also, isn't that lock of an earlier style than the rifle?

It does look like the lock was at one time flint except for the holes for the frizzen spring. Any chance you have pulled to lock to see if any holes were plugged?
Dennis

[flintriflesmith]

Dennis,
If you have any form of photo editing software, save the image and then zoom in on the area where the frizzen screw would have been. There is no evidence on the outside of the plate of a frizzen screw or frizzen spring attachment (screw and pin).

The drum is also far back into the plug for it to be where a touch hole was.
Gary

[Dennis Glazener]

Gary,
I agree no evidence of holes but the lock panels/mortise looks even more suspicious when magnified! The molding around the nose seems to have been modified for the nose of this lock.

Dennis

[JTR]

Gary,
I see your point, but I think I'll stay on the other side of the fence on this one.

I think the original lock had a rounded tail and a rounded nose, like a percussion of that period likely would have had.

If you consider that the overall architecture of the gun is nicely done, my thoughts are why would the maker go to that trouble, then fit an ill fitting lock to the gun.
 
As Dennis points out, the nose of the lock leaves little wood surrounding it, yet the maker left ample wood under the bottom line of the lock plate, so why not around the nose.

I think the reason the tail of the lock fits well, is because the wood had to be cut away from where the original round tail lock mortise ended, so was decently cut away to fit this pointy tail lock.

And the biggest question for me, if the lock was original, and considering the overall workmanship of the gun, why would the maker make the lock plate to drum fit so unbelievably ill fitting.

I can't believe that the guy that inlet and engraved the patchbox, is the same guy that fitted this lock.

Probably the only Maybe  surefire way to know for sure, would be to pull out the lock and examine the wood under it.
And of course. I've been wrong before!

John

[AntiqueGuns]

This gun does not look like it has had a screwdriver to it in a 100 years, I have good screwdrivers, but I have had them slip before, and then I scratch the stock or buggar a screw head.
My other concern is it has copper plates on both top and bottom of stock behind the lock and they overlap a third plate underneath.  If I take out a screw or take the look off it might cause some problems that I cannot anticipate.
I will take a look and if I can get it off with no problem, I will try.

[JTR]

Antiqueguns,
There's no need to take it apart as far as I'm concerned. I think the gun looks great as is, and whether the lock is original or not isn't actually important one way or the other.

It's an interesting topic to discuss, but I don't think it needs to be proved...

John

[mr. no gold]

Hi Ron-Saw you from a distance at the Vegas Winter show, (you would be hard to miss, being well over six feet), but when I could finally get to your table you were elsewhere. Well next time, for sure. I have to agree with John; don't do anything to the gun other than perhaps apply a coat of good quality wax to seal the surfaces. The lock is there, has been there for well over a century, and may, or may not be the original to the gun. If not, big deal! Could be that as many as 30%, or more, of the good guns out there have had more than one lock installed in their working life. The one in the gun now is nice, and it has a lot of character, like the rifle. It appears that it could be hand made for this gun. If so, that is a plus as many makers used factory locks. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Thank you for letting us take a look at a really neat old VA gun, and I hope that you will put it into the Library.
Dick

[JTR]

I think what Mr. Robles( antiqueguns) is more concerned with, is what can he get out of this gun?  

Guess I missed that question.

John