Barrel Striking files

[westbj2]

In the past there has been discussion about finishing round barrels.  Sometimes it turns out that the simplest tools remain obscure but are the easiest way to achieve a given task.  A friend in the U.K. sent me a picture of a vintage barrel striking file he has been using after seeing them in use at Hollands some years ago.
Apparently the barrel filers use these in narrow (5/16"width) for areas along the ribs, and wide as shown below for areas easier to get at.  Here are the dimensions and particulars of this file: " 7 1/8" x 5/8" x 5/32" holes 9/32" from ends, wood screw head 1/4" dia, single cut teeth 50 deg angle 24 teeth per inch ".
When he first described these files, I asked how you deal with the 'swamp' near the muzzle if the file is flat on a handle.  The ingenious simple answer was that paper shims are used in the middle of the file to effect a bow in that area, thus being able to transition the swamped area.
With a surface grinder and carbide tools, they would be simple to make.  In case you are wondering (as I did) they are not available on the commercial market in the UK.
Jim Westberg

[dannybb55]

Any more photos of the tool? Maybe some RCA type measurements.

[westbj2]

No more measurements, just one more picture from a different angle.
Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

Jim, what exactly do you mean by 'simple to make'?

Are you going to cut the teeth by file?

I love the concept of shimming the file to swamp the barrel. Duh, after someone tells you, but I'd be the one to make a curved piece of file!

Thanks for posting this idea.

Tom

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks for sharing these Jim.  The ideal tool for finishing around a full length sighting rib, for sure!  I assume you are suggesting grinding a commercial file thinner and drilling holes with the carbide tooling, right?

[westbj2]

No reason to do it the hard way.  A surface grinder to make the (mill bastard or long angle lathe?) file parallel and perhaps thin it as well.  Then just drill and countersink the mounting holes.
Tom....when it occurred to me regarding the simplicity of the shims I said the same thing.
Duh!
Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

AH, the light goes on, Grasshopper!

Cut a file down, Duh, again! Hahahaha..

[westbj2]

I forgot to mention something you can not see in the pictures.  Both ends of the file are just slightly beveled over the last 1/4" or so to avoid galling. 
Jim

[Dave B]

I ran accross a book at Powells a number of years ago and it shows the process of the building of fine Italian shotguns and double rifles. It focuses on the company F.lli Piotti in Brescia Italy. One of the sections shows the craftsman striking out a double barrel using a float like tool. It reminds me of the auto body files but on steroids. I picked up a copy. The book is promoting their product so shameless use of these photos for others edification may be frowned upon if so please sensor at will






I watched an episode of how it is made that treated this same subject. The soldering of the tubes by hand and the free use of the solder by the gun maker staggerd me. He then proceeded to use these exact type of tools to remove the gobbs of solder that was every where.  Having seen this I dropped trying to use sand paper to clean out the small remnant of solder on my halfstock under ribs and went for a modified file technique

[smart dog]

Hi Jim,
Please pardon my ignorance.  The file looks very coarse and what I don't quite understand is that when I attach a rib to a barrel (round or octagon), the barrel is already shaped, filed, and sanded smooth before the rib is attached.  Why would you need such a coarse file for around a rib? 

dave

[Dave B]

Dave How do you clean out the over run on the solder from putting a new rib on? I make quite a mess when I do it. I guess if you do it enough you can lay it down with only a fine bead at the joint with out any over flow. I am not there yet but getting better. This is the mess I have when I do it. The course file comes in handy to touch up the area as well as a chunk of hard wood cut to profile to use with wet and dry paper.


 

 I also understand that Striking is commonly done by H&H on well used double guns when being refinished. They remove scratches and dings by this method before moving to the finer levels of blemish removal and ultimate fine polish.

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
I use a soldering talc crayon to limit where the flux and solder will flow.  I have a triangular bladed high carbon steel scraper that I use to scrape away any excess solder.  Finally, I use fine sand paper glued to popsicle sticks to clean up.

dave

[Dave B]

Thanks for that information Dave.  Is that triagle bladed scraper  have a file like handle and comes down to a point at about 4" long? I have one that answers that discription. I picket it up to use for scraping brass mounts. I had not considered use on the barrel/rib joint.

[AeroE]

Hi Jim,
Please pardon my ignorance.  The file looks very coarse and what I don't quite understand is that when I attach a rib to a barrel (round or octagon), the barrel is already shaped, filed, and sanded smooth before the rib is attached.  Why would you need such a coarse file for around a rib? 

dave

That file amounts to an armstrong powered scraper with multiple cutting tools, instead of the one found on a powered machine.

It's a great idea.  The sensitive touch of the hand held tool will remove solder efficiently without scarring the barrel or rib.  Multiple teeth on a long back encourage the teeth to float across the surface without digging in.

[westbj2]

Interesting Italian tools.  Almost as if they are designed to cut (scrape) and burnish at the same time.  Can't tell by the pictures but all must have a slight "belly" in the center portion to allow transition at the swamp behind the muzzles.  Also, hard to tell in the photos but the lower picture shows a tool standing nearly vertical.  That tool may have a bit of a cross-sectional radius across its working surface.  A great way to finish the top of the rib while keeping it wrinkle free.  Just a few minutes watching the barrel finishers using the tools would tell alot !
Jim Westberg

[Steve-In]

Those coarse tools look like chunks of broaches with handles brazed on to me.  They have a small taper in them, the backs and sides are smooth.  As they are pushed or pulled through a guide bushing each tooth cuts a little more out, like .001 or .002.  They could have been used for some shaping operation or to cut keyways in gears.  When broken or the width got too small they could been have put to the above use.  I think there is a brand "Minuteman" on the market sold at MSC, McMaster-Carr etc.

[Steve-In]

This link shows several examples of broaches.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=keyway+broach&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[kutter]

The Italian bbl tools are scrapers, nothing fancy.
They may well have been shop made from broken or otherwise used machine tooling.
They do alot of things like that 'in house'.
With a bit of practice, you can remove a little or a lot of material while keeping an absolute ripple free surface on the tubes, which is a trademark of the high grade double gun.
Don't let the coarse teeth fool you, they can cut a very fine finished surface.


The one standing up in the pic is for the under rib on a SxS or perhaps the side rib(s) on an O/U. The slight convex shape easily shaves the rib shape clean and level.

They use very little draw filing to polish, as it doesn't elliminate waves and ripples,,you need something to bridge distances to elliminate it.  Draw filing works, but it does put ripples into the surface.
Plus the scapers, sharpened with a mirror finish on the final cut tools, will leave a surface that requires very little final polish with abrasives. The less the better to avoid putting any ripples back into the surface.  

Single point V shaped hand scrapers are used around the top & bottom rib joint, forend lug & short rib.
They can also be used to lightly scrape the bbl area adjacent to the top rib as well as the side of the top rib.
I use this type for cleaning the solder from re-rib jobs on doubles and other such jobs.
 
Lacking a set of nice Italian made scrapers like the pics show, I use coarse cut files length wise. A couple that I have just slightly relieved the ends so they don't gouge the surface & the  middle portion cuts. You can actually flex them a tiny bit in using them too if you use thin enough files.
The coarse teeth do not load up & scar the surface and clean easily when needed.  Gentle pressure allows a nice smooth cut & leveling the surface is quite easy.
Mounting a wooden block handle like the tools posted is a great idea. I may do that next time around.
...but I'm getting kind of tired of dbl bbl polishing though!

[Swampwalker]

Thanks for the info, whoever 'broached' it.  Definitely food for thought!  I've swamped a few barrels and getting the ripples out is a PITA!

[Jim Kibler]

It really is amazing how a polished round barrel will show even the slightest irregularity in size and shape.  I experience this recently when building 1750's English fowling piece.  Even just a few thousandths will show when looking down the barrel.  The optical reflection off a round surface really intensifies any irregularities.  I ended up using files lengthwise as well.  This barrel had a fair amount of taper and flare to it, but a thin file will flex sufficently to follow the profile. 

Jim

[westbj2]

Even .001" or .002" over a horizontal distance of an inch or two will result in a ripple or wavy effect is the lighting is good.  Here is a true story. 
I once ordered a tapered round barrel and was told by the maker that there would be a delay because a new lathe was being installed in his shop.  When the barrel finally came, I took it out of its shipping tube and went outside to see how much finishing work would be involved.  To my amazement after looking down the barrel exterior from a low angle, there were NO ripples....it was perfect!  It turned out however that I learned it is quite difficult to finish a perfect barrel without introducing any ripples.
Jim