Re: Loading of round ball in a smoothbore

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

LB, do you have any gun that "fits"    perhaps you should measure it up and send the measurements to someone you want to build one for you?

[Daryl]

Taylor is going to build him another one right away, I think - in 28 bore maybe?  I'm not sure on the bore size.

[Vomitus]

  LOL Tim, how many can you handle?@!

[Dphariss]

Never having come close to rifle accuracy with my smoothie, I can easily take deer at ranges farther than my average kill with a rifle.   The accuracy limit is the shooter.

Not in my experience.
Not where I hunt.
The "average" range is not valid unless the max range is very close to the average.
Dan

[Daryl]

Where a guy sits aginst a tree in fairly thick bush, or sits up one a tree stand over a pile of corn, or bucket of Timmy's (or whatever) donuts and pokes his deer usually on the short side of 50yards, the smoothbore does the job very well.  The smoothie shooter can then load shot on the walk home and poke some grouse. 

Of course, the same shot can be taken with a rifle, and that same rifle can take a poke across the 'park' or meadow at the deer 125 to 150 yard shot as you carefully 'stalk' along a trail through the bush (still hunt).  The smoothbore is useless for that task.

To someone blessed with mostly long shots over wide open spaces, spaces where he stalks to get withing 150yards of his deer, elk or even moose, the rifle is the only weapon that makes sense.

Here, we can choose to hunt either way if we choose - from a 'stand' for close shooting with a smoothbore, stalking through tall stands of spruce or growling young pines, or by even sitting around wipe open spaces of huge logging slashes 1,000yards wide, then spotting and stocking around and across those slashes to get a 'close' 100 to 150 yard shot.  So, for us, blessed with both situations, either gun can be effective as a ball shooting weapon to fill the freezer.

This same hunter can then shoot grouse on his walk home and if he wishes, just as many of us do, with our rifles.  Here in BC, the rifle still has an advantage as not many guys here use a smoothbore with fine shot for grouse, modern or flint - the rifle does it, no matter what the caliber. 

Many of us also have grouse loads for our modern big game rifles as well - either with cast bullets or jacketed.  That's  just the way of things is are.  Here, the rifle is more versatile than a smoothbore.  Back East in the tight bush, the smoothie would be the verstile gun, as the grouse are usually quite wild and at least in Southern Ontario, it used to be illegal to shoot one with a rifle - I never had the opportunity as they were wild flushers.  I never saw one on the ground, yet shot hundreds of grouse when I was a kid. When you saw one, it was already head high and bugging out, straight away from you - in whichever direction they're headed, already 30 yards away and jinking through the trees. Dang hard shot with a modern gun, let alone a flinter. Better have a really tight shooting load in it.

[ddoyle]

this year in the wide open spaces of B.C I took with a rifle 10 fallow deer (under permit), a mule deer and a nice whitetail buck, frigged up two chances at bull elk at  approx 30 yards (diffrent bulls same idiot) and a spike fork moose at 15 yards (same idiot). Also sat aside a shooter who dumped a decent caribou. All of these animals where in smooth bore range. The fact that I was shooting a high BC bullet launched from under 2000 dollars worth of scope did not seem to matter, same lesson learned year after year.

I see alot of 'far away' game but it seems that the ones that can be shot are always well under 100 yrds off and usually close enough to smell

[Daryl]

For big game specific with a smoothbore - which will work well to a bout 75 yards with snug loads, a 16 bore ior 14 bore would be my choice.

In theose I'd use about 120gr. or whatever shot the best - probably 120gr. to 140gr.  Bob in the Woods, from Ontario uses a 10 bore for moose and likes it.  What's not to like except maybe it's recoil?  The big ones kills exceptionally well - here in BC too. Taylor took a moose with a .75 cal. Bess one year - Lyman's gun, I think, in the early 80's. Walked maybe 20 yards and lay down. He used 110gr. of 2F IIRC. 

His latest Bess, the 10 bore he made in the 1728 Pattern & now owned by Sonny here, has made a number of 2 1/2" standing rest (pillar) groups at 50 yards. The big ones are easier to get to shoot, in my experience so far.  I got 3" for 5 shots with a friend's 20 bore off the bench - maybe a fluke, but my choked 20 won't make better than 5" to 7" due to fliers - at 50yards. 

 think maybe some people put a couple shots down range and if it puts a couple shots close together, they measure that and say their smooth gun shoots aabout an inch at 50yards.  As far as an inch or even 2"- I see most guys can't do that with a rifle, let alone a smoothbore - not saying it can't be done - but I think I'd have to see it.  I was quite impressed with the 2 1/2" with the .735" ball from Taylor's Bess with 120gr. 2F and 3" group (single group) from Kip's 20bore using 85gr. 2F.

With a 12, recoil rears it's ugly head with heavier loads needed to maintain flat trajectory and accuracy for longer shooting- again 75 to 80 yards on a moose, or elk. The 12 hits a LOT harder than the smaller bores - at both ends.

Many of us have 20 bores, which with 120gr. to 140gr. 2f will also work very well on larger big game, I"m sure.  Many smoothbore shooters using them on trail walks use only 60 to 70gr. of powder - I do not consider that to be a big game hunting load as in that size bore, it's a pistol load, although, of course, it will kill big game. 

From what I've seen, the higher you can get the velocity, the further out you get the knuckle ball before it does weird things - I've watched the flight in binocs and a trupet's end seems to match a smoothbore launched ball quite well after it seems to take on a spin.

Yes - sometimes they go straight - but it is not something you can trust and you must be able to trust it within the range you want to use it.

That's my opinion on smoothbores for big game.

[Dphariss]

this year in the wide open spaces of B.C I took with a rifle 10 fallow deer (under permit), a mule deer and a nice whitetail buck, frigged up two chances at bull elk at  approx 30 yards (diffrent bulls same idiot) and a spike fork moose at 15 yards (same idiot). Also sat aside a shooter who dumped a decent caribou. All of these animals where in smooth bore range. The fact that I was shooting a high BC bullet launched from under 2000 dollars worth of scope did not seem to matter, same lesson learned year after year.

I see alot of 'far away' game but it seems that the ones that can be shot are always well under 100 yrds off and usually close enough to smell

My average shot for 3 deer this year was about 60 yards. The farthest was 105 (laser rangefinder) this in not particularly far for where I live and it was offhand as well. Could not see the deer from any other position and she was watching me since there was NO cover other than terrain. The other two kills were in a creek bottom and I think the farthest here was about 40-50 yards.


 In the brush range finders are not needed.
I may hunt a variety of terrain on the same day or simply by walking out of some creek bottom onto a treeless plain.

The deer that made this blood trail might have been killed with a smoothbore, but the target was pretty small since she was facing me. If I make a sighting/holding error and then the gun makes a 2-3" error the combination can then be large enough to cause "problems". But in this case I had a good sitting position as the deer actually came my way after a long stalk (3/4 mile of so).


I will take shots to 120 plus where I live. Often no choice.
I prefer accuracy. I see no point to shooting a round ball from a smooth bore UNLESS the shooter simply wants to.
At 25-30 yards a FL pistol will work. In fact a good pistol will average better groups than a smoothbore at 50 yards.

You can smell elk a long way in the timber sometimes
Dan

[Vomitus]

 Gee whiz Dan, that country is flat! And bald! Pretty hard stocking anything in the open like that.
  Much like here now with all the huge logging slashes.
  My BP guns get left at home more now then ever.(for Hunting) I have a tree stand in a heavy wooded area and I think a smoothie will do just fine for moose if you can call them in...but a Limited Entry Hunt certificate must be obtained to hunt any bull moose here. It's like a lottery. If I can get lucky enough to get a draw, then I know I could kill a bull within 50 yards of my tree stand with a smoothbore. More likely closer. Last time I checked, there were moose *^*%$ right underneath the "stand" so a spear would work too!lol!
  We all know rifles are far superior to the fowlers, but the challenge is so much greater, and the guys around here that shoot them are a ton of fun.Probably due to our single sighted guns disadvantage.Most if not all of the smoothie shooters around here are also excellent rifle shots.
  When on a shooting line or trail walk, the rifle guys are all chatting and squabbling about trajectories, ballistic coefficient, sight pictures and down range knockdown power,ad nauseum.Smoothbore guys on the trail are talking about money,love,sex,women,death,life,hookers,hotrods,homo's and steak dinner. All serious shooters.I know where I fit in! LOL!!! 

[Dphariss]

Using terrain and knowing the area can get ML range shots even on antelope.
This under 110 yards but I had to low crawl about 40-50 yards to get there. Getting the camera to focus with the grass required pointing it at the far hill then tipping it down. Holding it over my head.... But crawling this close to a bedded Antelope Doe? You have to hunt them like they can shoot back...





They got to within 80 or so before leaving. I shot over a buck at this same spot a a week or so before. But I was shooting through grass and he was partly screened, they has seen me low crawling even in the rather high grass they started to move and were within feet of winding me. I had I held in the grass rather than on his upper body I would have killed him. I jsut screwed up to to the vision problems. Get within 80 yards of antelope then miss? Yeah I was not happy...
They reportedly have 8 power vision and are the hardest thing to get up on that I hunt. They will spot and watch you at  1 mile plus.

Dan

[Daryl]

My friend in Miles City in the East of Montana, calls them "stink goats".

[Vomitus]

Dan, cool shots!  Just south of us we have California Bighorns in huntable numbers.No chance of smoothbore or for that matter,any muzzleloader(that I know of)will get you close enough to these magnificent creatures. A two hundred yard shot is a close shot.Like those prairie goats, these sheep have 8 power vision. All rams harvested must be full curl or better. That's not easy with a bighorn. The big old guys are broomed back to 3/4 and 7/8ths curl.  The good thing is, a good muley population is mixed in with these sheep.Google -Fraser Chilcotin rivers. Scan south and west to Churn Creek. A little piece of heaven.