"The Masterpiece Rifle"

[Mike Brooks]

Mike,

If you want to know about the American Custom Gunmakers Guild, I would suggest you go to their web site and read about them.  http://www.acgg.org/
I have shown with the ACGG/FEGA joint show in Reno, NV since yr. 2000

Yes, they are more about the Bolt and Single Shot Rifles, and Shotguns , but they are not ignorant as to quality of workmanship.
This is what Hugh's Rifle was judged on , Quality of Workmanship.
Does the work show "mastery" of the skills necessary for a high quality custom product ?
Hugh's rifle does, without question.

Now I must admit, that there are things about the gun I would have done differently to meet my sense of artistic balance, but that does not negate the fact that the "piece" is done by a person who has "mastery" of his medium and therefore can be refereed to as a "masters-piece".

Mike, I would say the same for your work also, and a host of others on the ALR forum.

Mark Swanson, engraver

He may be a master of wire inlay, but somebody ought to teach him how to properly stock and carve a rifle. I've seen better stock architecture come out of TVM.  It seems he could have pounded that wire in a curly maple plank and still been declared a "Master
 Shows me how irrelevant this particular gun Guild is also......

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, as far as I know we have never objected to critique of guns. We do object to personal insult and attack... to anyone.

Everyone....... is entitled to an opinion about the merits of a gun. we in fact try to promote well intentioned and constructive critique.... use descriptive language to help us see the particular aspects of the gun that you like or dislike, think appropriate or inappropriate......... If it is honestly educational for all involved.. that fits the purpose of this site....

All of us also need to ask ourselves: "Would you want your kids to see what I write??"  BEFORE we post........   No need to insult the person who made the gun.. there are plenty of other forums for that

Well, OK.....
 The most difficult thing to get past is the cheek piece. PREGNANT and amateurish. Looks like something off of a 1960's Dixie Gun Works kit. The wrist area looks almost squarish and the barrel is buried too deep in the wood. The wire is nicely executed, although it does "float" a bit behind the cheek, nothing to anchor it. What's up with those grooved areas around the lock panels? Another very amateurish feature. It is also imbalanced with the lack of relief carving. The very little bit that is behind the barrel tang is insignificant and amateurishly executed. $#*!, I'm no great shakes at relief carving but even I can do better than that. He would have been far better off to carry the lock panels and tang carving off in wire as that is his forte'. The engraving is fine, but for a "Masterpiece " gun I'd expect far more of it. I don't remember anything else about the gun, I couldn't get past the above faults.
 This may have been considered "Masterpiece work" in the 60's and 70's, but you just can't get by with this kind of stuff these days .

[T*O*F]

This is the verbage for acceptance as a "regular member" into the guild. It is revealing and certain points have been highlighted in red by myself that might warrant further discussion.

While the ACGG is fortunate to have many of the world’s finest craftspersons as Regular Members, the broad diversity of our membership dictates that we make no endorsement of any Member’s level of expertise. No warranty is made as to the individual’s skills or ability to perform any particular work. In order to become a Regular Member the application process includes:

1.3 signatures of current Regular Members who have examined work and attest that it meets minimum acceptable standards;
2.6 customer references verifying satisfactory business relationships;
3.displaying two examples of work based on established guidelines;
4.vote for approval of work by 2/3 majority of Regular Members attending annual exhibition.

One gains membership by submitting the above work in a category or categories, of which there are several.  Hugh is listed as a stockmaker.  No title is bestowed other than "regular member" upon acceptance.

[TMerkley]

Mr. Brooks,

May we see some of your work?

[tim crowe]

http://www.fowlingguns.com/rifle13.html

Mike has a few guns that you can see.

I like the one listed above.

[Vomitus]

  I couldn't find "Mike Brooks" listed on the ACGG so he can't be a master. Beware of ALL smoothbore builders (and shooters)! They're hackers! Speaking of which, Hacker Martin built some unacclaimed masterpieces,did he not?

[tim crowe]

Leatherbelly
That is a rifle. I wouldn't own a Smooth Bore. 
The sad part is I drove right by Merango on the way to CornPatch, and I could have seen the gun!

[Mike Brooks]

Mr. Brooks,

May we see some of your work?

Try www.fowlingguns.com for all of my most resent work. No "Masterpieces" there, just stuff that has been evolving for the past 311 guns and 31 years.
But, this thread isn't about me. You can start another thread and critique my work if you want to......I'll even help!

[Shreckmeister]

Flinter:   Thanks for the comment!   The reason I call this gun the "Masterpiece Rifle" is because of it's origin -I made it for entrance into the American Custom Gunmaker's Guild.  The Guild's primary criteria for membership is "high end workmanship".    The rifle is NOT made from a kit nor a stock duplicator -  lock, stock and barrel are all form my bench using largely hand tools and my own savvy.
The rifle took 3000 hrs. to complete and the case & accessories took another 3000 hrs.   It was presented to the ACGG in 2009 for scrutiny and I was accepted without one descending vote.  As of this date it has been on display at: Princeton IL, Denver, Los Vegas, Reno, Fort Worth, and Dallas Safari Club.    Hugh Toenjes

Hugh.... It truly is a masterpiece rifle.... I would love to see it Up close... Will it make its way to the eastern part of the country... 6000 hours... I think you can get a masters degree quicker... Congratulations.... The art form is Enhanced by
 Builders With your level of dedication....

[Avlrc]

I think this is how  " The War Between the States" got started.

[greybeard]

I think this is how  " The War Between the States" got started.
[/quote

Reminds me of "OH YEA, well my uncle can whup your Uncle"

    Sand box talk!!!!    Bob

[tuffy]

It seems to me that, per the rules of the ACGG, Mr. Toenjes applied for regular membership. As such the ACGG made no mention of the quality of the rifle other than to approve membership. Therefore it must have been Mr. Toenjes that placed the moniker "Masterpiece Rifle" on said firearm. End of  story.

    CW

[bob in the woods]

This is circling on semantics. The fact is, the rifle was submitted as an example of workmanship for entrance to the Guild. That qualifies loosely as a "masterpiece" I suppose. Question is , in my mind, ...if you made  a well executed, and decorated copyof  a TC "Hawken"  would it be seen as a Masterpiece ? Not to me, but that is just my opinion. What I see here, is a very decorated muzzleloading gun. Thats it. Same would hold true if you spent 1000's of hours making a gun based on a " Traditions" or "Pedersoli" design.  That's my penny spent 

[jimc2]

This subject is getting looong and starting to I should say is out of hand. All this bickering is proving nothing. Your mind was made up many posts ago.JUST LET THIS GO. let get back to things that matter,Please

[Eric Kettenburg]

Well we might be accomplishing a new record as it pertains to length of a given thread?

See what I did there?  I just added to it!

 

[lafreniere]

Long-time members of this forum may remember that this topic started about this time in '09.  A guy who posted as "Lew Wetzel" was given a pair of white gloves in order to handle Hugh's gun.  This put a few guys through the roof and, I guess, they're still upset.  Why don't we have a gentlemen's agreement to never use the "M" word and move on.  This thread is accomplishing nothing.

Or better yet, a gentleman's agreement to act like gentlemen.

[Robby]

A man puts that kind of time and effort into something, he must have a love and passion for his work, and to be treated the way he has, is to me , shameful.
I just plain don't get it. You don't like the gun, fine, explain yourself and let the man explain why things are the way they are and why he did them. To take issue with the word masterpiece or wearing gloves(?), especially in light of those things being explained, is petty and small minded, and to further expand on it, now this guild organization itself is taking hits(?), BAH! The whole thing sounds as catty as a high school cheerleader squad. I'm disgusted!
Mark R. Robinson
Robby
  

[Frenchy]

As others have shown, there is NO "Master" category of membership in the ACGG.
An affirmative vote of at least 2/3 means that the candidate has met or surpassed the minimum standards for workmanship to become a "Regular Member".
Seems the main criticism here is not the quality of the rifle but, the ego of the maker. Just rubs people wrong.   

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

As this just seems to be circling round and round with nothing further of value apparent I am going to lock the thread.

I suggest reading the following blog post: http://artofmanliness.com/2011/07/13/being-a-gentleman-in-the-age-of-the-internet-6-ways-to-bring-civility-online/