Author Topic: triggers and calibers... (Read 10054 times)

wvmtnman · « **on:** December 03, 2008, 04:16:21 AM »

For the most part, I have always considered that when making a smaller caliber rifle (.40 caliber and under) that it needed to have set triggers. I guess the reason I have always believed this is becasue of what I heard people say about the subject when I first got into muzzleloading. I was wondering how you guys feel about using a single trigger on a smaller caliber rifle or an offhand target rifle.
Brian

omark · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:25:31 AM »

even when a rifle has set triggers, i usually use them unset, especially when hunting.

Dphariss · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:36:55 AM »

Quote from: wvmtnman on December 03, 2008, 04:16:21 AM

For the most part, I have always considered that when making a smaller caliber rifle (.40 caliber and under) that it needed to have set triggers. I guess the reason I have always believed this is becasue of what I heard people say about the subject when I first got into muzzleloading. I was wondering how you guys feel about using a single trigger on a smaller caliber rifle or an offhand target rifle.
Brian

I have no particular love affair with set triggers and have built target specific rifles with single triggers.
I actually think that some people shoot flintlocks especially better with a plain trigger.
I do not consider most DST as working well enough to use as a single so if I have sets I use them as such.
This is entirely personal preference.

Dan

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:37:12 AM »

When I built my Jacob Kuntz interpretation rifle, I used the single trigger, just as he did. I do not regret it in the slightest. The pull is light and the break is clean and crisp. Double set triggers wouldn't be enough of an advantage to make the departure from the standard worthwhile. I love shooting it.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:46:01 AM »

There are original Kentucky rifles that were built with the double set trigger system and then the owner had it altered to a single trigger. One explanation was that cold weather made using the double triggers more difficult. One gun retained only the front (set) trigger and it was a 'hair trigger'.
Regards-Dick

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2008, 05:46:17 AM »

Brian... I have a little .32 cal I. Haines with a single trigger that shoots like a dream. I'm convinced that a well worked, well placed single trigger is as effective, or better than a set trigger. I'm sure others might not agree, and maybe it's because I've shot a lot more single triggers than set, but I really like them. For me, it's nice to be able to take out the slack and really feel the trigger as you press.

Ed

Paddlefoot · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:19:30 AM »

I like set triggers for target work but I don't have a problem with a "well made" single trigger for target either. I always look at set triggers as another oppertunity to make a noise that will scare anything wild pretty much out of the county. Sort of like cocking the hammer without holding the trigger back. Tick,tick becomes CLACK,CLACK out in the woods. Many years ago I won the Levi Garrett Regional with a .40 cal flintlock with a single trigger....I could see back then.

J. Talbert · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:37:03 AM »

Of all the serious target shooters I've known thru the years, I can't name any that shoot offhand target rifles with single triggers. (I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't encountered them.)
My feeling is: set triggers for a dedicated target gun, single trigger for a dedicated hunting gun. For a mixed use gun; you make the call.

Kermit · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:05:42 PM »

I have .25 cal (!) flinter with a single trigger. Works just fine! The real issue is that little phrase about being well set up...

t.caster · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:58:05 PM »

Don't see what caliber has to do with trigger selection. It is probably best (maybe not feasable) to have the same setup on all your rifles for consistancy sake. Woops, that's assuming you have more than one. I've always prefered set triggers, both single and double over plain. I always use them set, even when hunting. I keep a bare trigger finger. Yes, they are harder to install and align, but so is a butt plate, so what the hey!
The one rifle I built myself with a plane trigger, got retrofit with DST after a few months of lackluster shooting. It had a nice light pull, but a lot of creep before going off. It went on to win a lot of prizes with set triggers! Use whatever you are most comfortable shooting with, IMHO. Fugettabout PC when it comes to trickers.

jerrywh · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2008, 09:39:14 PM »

In my opinion, a good single trigger is as good as any set trigger there is and better for hunting.

Robby · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2008, 09:55:42 PM »

I agree with t. caster, what has caliber got to do with it. Plain or pretty, big bore or small, when the gun is done, and your aiming down range, you want a good trigger. You are twice removed from the ball going down range, the lock, and the trigger, with the trigger being the last contact you have, and probably the cause of more misses than any other single factor. I think, every thing else being equal, in man and gun, a set trigger will out shoot a plain trigger almost every time, you can't beat the spontaneity of a spring loaded light trigger. Thats not to say a plain trigger can't be made to shoot well, because it certainly can, it just takes more time at the work bench, and more range time, so you are more in concert with that particular trigger. I hunt with both, but If I plan to hunt with a plain trigger, I do spend more time at the range, until the feel of that trigger becomes so ingrained, I don't have to think about it, I can be more single minded about what I want to hit. I think the Japanese call it "moo-shin", no-mindedness.
My opinion, for what its worth, if you shoot against someone and you have an ounce of competitiveness or hunt and have any sense of responsibility for making a clean kill shot, you would want the best possible trigger you can make for yourself, plain or set, still, things can happen.
Robby

Long John · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2008, 12:43:08 AM »

I think you have first decide what the principal use of the rifle will be. If you are a serious competitor and the rifle is intended to be the tool you use to advance your competitve posture in the universe of people against whom you compete then you might find an advantage in having a set trigger. If the principal use is as a hunting rifle then the the simple trigger might provide an advantage.

On my 36 caliber Bucks County rifle I achieved a quite satisfactory trigger pull with a single trigger. I am doing even better with my new 54. An fine trigger pull can be achieved with a simple trigger - not as fine as you will achieve with a properly set-up set trigger- but certainly sufficient for good shooting.

You have to ask yourself what is most important to you and build the rifle to suit. I decided a while back that I liked the simple triggers and thats what I build for myself. Most of the guys I compete with use set triggers. I win my share.

Best Regards.

John Cholin

jerrywh · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2008, 03:35:39 AM »

Smith and Wesson's have about as good a trigger as exists. They aren't set triggers. The problem is not many gunsmiths have the expertise to make a real good single trigger. Anybody can put in a set trigger and make it work well. WELL ALMOST ANYBODY

Dphariss · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2008, 07:13:29 PM »

Quote from: jerrywh on December 04, 2008, 03:35:39 AM

Smith and Wesson's have about as good a trigger as exists. They aren't set triggers. The problem is not many gunsmiths have the expertise to make a real good single trigger. Anybody can put in a set trigger and make it work well. WELL ALMOST ANYBODY

I had a single trigger Shiloh Sharps match rifle with a 8 oz trigger. It would also pass my "3 whacks on the barrel or action with a small mallet" safety test.
Could break it like a set when shooting off hand but was steadier when shooting from x-sticks.
But as you indicate it requires knowing or figuring out what to do.
Its easy to screw up set triggers or a lock to through lack of understanding the principles.
Hunting rifles need not have a trigger under 2-3 pounds. A good 4 pound trigger is better than a bad 2 pound.
Dan

t.caster · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:04:36 PM »

S&W, Sharps.....they longrifle builders?

?

sz · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:48:02 PM »

Speaking strictly for myself, I prefer a single trigger for precision shooting. I shot M-14s and now I shoot AR-15s for accuracy sometimes, and all my high accuracy bolt guns have single triggers. (I know...shame shame, but i still shoot rifles other than flinters now and then) I have shot more tight groups with those rifles in the last 40 years than I can count.
So I believe that's enough proof you don't need a set trigger. If you like set triggers, use them. But don't get the idea you Need one. You don't.
What you need is a trigger that feels good to you, and that you can control.

just to prove a point here's something to look at. I show this with a disclaimer first;
This is the best group I ever fired with an iron sighted rifle in my life. That's why
I saved it. So this is not the usual group. But I think it illustrates what I am saying here.
It was fired with a dedicated target rifle, AR-15 in 6.8SPC
I had just installed a new precision rear sight on it. It has a 4 pound trigger, but it breaks as clean as any S&W revolver.
I had a 10 round magazine in the rifle to sight it in with. I fired 6 rounds over a bench, adjusting as I went. I was adjusting as my spotter called them out to me.

The 6th round was just at the corner of the target, and you can see it here.
My spotter said "come up one click and left one, and shoot me a group." I did, and I fired out the last 4 rounds
Not a set trigger.
See my point?

northmn · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:50:38 PM »

Quote from: Dphariss on December 04, 2008, 07:13:29 PM

Quote from: jerrywh on December 04, 2008, 03:35:39 AM
Smith and Wesson's have about as good a trigger as exists. They aren't set triggers. The problem is not many gunsmiths have the expertise to make a real good single trigger. Anybody can put in a set trigger and make it work well. WELL ALMOST ANYBODY

I had a single trigger Shiloh Sharps match rifle with a 8 oz trigger. It would also pass my "3 whacks on the barrel or action with a small mallet" safety test.
Could break it like a set when shooting off hand but was steadier when shooting from x-sticks.
But as you indicate it requires knowing or figuring out what to do.
Its easy to screw up set triggers or a lock to through lack of understanding the principles.
Hunting rifles need not have a trigger under 2-3 pounds. A good 4 pound trigger is better than a bad 2 pound.
Dan

The English seemed to stay with single triggers. I thought I read a quote somewhere from an Englishman of the times that stated that the he could not see any practical use for a trigger that broke under 4 pounds. For a hunting rifle he was likely correct. There are several qualities to a good trigger pull including smoothness, length of pull and poundage. One often gets to know a lock disassembly very well to get that.

DP

jerrywh · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2008, 12:00:30 AM »

1/3 the trigger pull is in the lock. 1/3 is in the trigger. The other 1/3 is in your finger and your mind.

t.caster · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2008, 01:04:53 AM »

Me thinks that's only true when the distance from the trigger pivot pin to the sear arm and your finger are the same, for a 1:1 ratio. That makes for a heavy trigger pull with no mechanical advantage. I understand the principles of leverage, and know how to use them, you know.

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Author Topic: triggers and calibers... (Read 10054 times)

omark

northmn