Author Topic: Building a selection of the finest Pennsylvania rifles (Read 8051 times)

smart dog · « **on:** April 16, 2012, 07:45:14 AM »

Hi Folks,
I am a bit like the cobbler who has no shoes. Over the years most of the guns I made were given to family and friends as gifts, and I currently have no longrifles of my own. After almost 30 years, I am finally thinking about me and want to create a suite of 3-4 rifles that represent the very finest architecture, carving, and metal work found on Pennsylvania longrifles. I want to build a pre- or Revolutionary War period gun and a couple of "Golden Age" guns. I am interested in the opinions of folks on this forum about what original makers you would include in that representative group. As examples of "Golden Age" John Noll and George Eister are at the top of my list. I am not going to build bench copies, but want to use the work and style of original makers as inspiration. The sky is the limit with respect to architecture, carving, inlays, and engraving and I welcome your thoughts.

Thanks,

dave

DB · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2012, 11:15:02 AM »

I would have to have a Wolfgang Haga and a Melchior Fordney

Lucky R A · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2012, 01:19:30 PM »

Dave, I would start with one one of the great Christian Springs rifles from the Moravian Gun makers book probably an Oerter. Then would be a nice Lancaster/York Co. gun probably one of the two you selected Noll or Eister. Then do a nice Verner or Kuntz and end it all up with something by John Fleeger, Allison etc. Check out the selections in the Western PA Longrifles book by Rosenberger and Kauffman. That should keep you busy for a couple of months.....Good luck on your project---looking forward to the photos Ron

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2012, 04:03:44 PM »

There are more fine rifles than I got years.....

smart dog · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2012, 05:03:30 PM »

Hi Tom,
That is too true. Nonetheless, we mortals have to make choices and I am casting my net for opinions. Working a full time job that takes me away from my shop for months at a time, it will take me a long time to produce the guns. However, I am going to get started this year with a colonial or Rev War period rifle. I am definitely going to follow Ron's suggestion and look at some Moravian guns as a start. Actually, Ron's entire list sounds pretty good.

Thanks,

dave

Herb · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2012, 05:37:37 PM »

Check out Ron's suggestion and get the book "The Longrifles of Western Pennsylvania, Allegheny and Westmoreland Counties", by Rosenberger and Kaufmann. You should be able to get it from an interlibrary loan. They have B&W photos, plus some in color. J. Fleeger is good and so is David Morton. One of his rifles sold for $25,000 a few years ago.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2012, 07:32:42 PM »

My ultimate goal also, and it would not be complete without a Jacob Kuntz, John Noll, John Haga or Jacob Hoak and a few others. Its almost as much fun thinking about them as making them. Have fun with your project. Smylee

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2012, 08:18:00 PM »

I would have to include Peter Berry.

JTR · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2012, 01:21:59 AM »

I'd maybe consider Andreas Albrecht in place of Oerter, stick with Noll or Eister, then A. Verner, and probably finish with a Western Pa rifle.
Sounds like a great project, and hopefully you won't give them away as fast as you make them!

John

J. Talbert · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2012, 01:37:05 AM »

So many guns... so little time

Some very good suggestions so far. Eister's at the top of my list, which also includes many of the others mentioned already.
But I think I'd also have to include Armstrong. His guns have so many Armstong features, and I'd begin with one of his profiles where the comb just sorta melts into the wrist, and end with his signature carving, looped designs and his classic patchbox finial.

Jeff

Majorjoel · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2012, 12:45:07 PM »

All of the suggestions posted so far are great and like choosing the best four from Joe Kindig's closet! When it comes to western PA makers, Dave have a look at the work of George Kettering. Not only was Kettering a superb longrifle artist, he led an adventurous life and tragic end that easily could become oscar material in a Hollowood script. You will find pictures of my favorite G. Kettering rifle in color and B&W in the pages of the book previously mentioned above; The Longrifles Of Western Pennsylvania by Rosenberger and Kaufmann. Rifle #44. Dave, I'm sure with all of your gifts and talents that you would do this rifle justice! All the best..........Joel

smallpatch · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2012, 06:03:33 PM »

Somewhere in there, you've got to make room for a Bonewitz!!!

t.caster · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:13:39 PM »

J.P. Beck, Verner, Hachen, Oerter, Fordney, Border (bedford), Armstrong, Dickert, Vincent, Hawken....wait that's more than four! I can't get it down to four. You NEED a smoothy too, so some of these make into fine "smoothrifles"!
Fun to think about!

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:17:38 PM »

I don't think I could settle for just four. I've already made the mistake of building three of my 'collection' in .50 calibre, when one would have been fine. Because I 'need' a .36 and a .45!
A suggestion...take your favourite builder from each 'school' or even County, and get started. Don't forget to include a Southern Mountain Rifle, and a smooth rifle in one of your builds.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:19:14 PM »

I'm encouraged to see many of us are on the same page.

Clowdis · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:47:39 PM »

Dave,
If I were doing this I think I might disregard makers and go more for the different styles since you're not going for copies anyway. First I think I'd do an early longrifle with sliding wood patchbox, then a Lancaster style with straight comb and daisy finial on the patchbox, thirdly I'd look at one with a "Roman nose" style of architecture such as a Rupp, and last but not least I'd opt for a southern mountain or poorboy style. You could also slide into the percussion era too if you'd like but I assume you're wanting to stay with flintlocks. I think recreations or interpretations of schools of gunmaking might be more of what you're looking for than just copying a rifle. You can add or take away features to suit your personal taste, just think about it for a while before you do something that might be too controversial, but you're not being graded on this are you?

Long John · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2012, 11:45:28 PM »

I had ttheh opportunity to handle it once and that moment cemented my love affair with RCA 53. That is a shooter's rifle! The balance is superb. When you pick it up you can just hear it whispering "Shoot me, shoot me.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

curly · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2012, 12:05:57 AM »

Smart Dog, I was exactily in your position two years ago. Building since around 1973 for everyone else and no rifle of my own until I decided "its about time for me". I like Henry Sheets,
J.P.Beck, Henry Spitzer, Andrew Figthorn, and Lenoard Reedy. Working on number 2 right now.
Curly

smart dog · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2012, 06:55:09 AM »

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

I appreciate all of the advice and will take it all into consideration. You guys are great. I have to restrict myself a little because my interests range from American guns to hand gonnes, wheellocks, snaphaunces, and all manner of early firearms. I am also a student of the decorative arts relative to arms and armor. In fact my real interest in guns is not as guns but as canvasses for some of the best decorative arts of the times. Again, thank you all for your advice. I value it greatly.

dave

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Author Topic: Building a selection of the finest Pennsylvania rifles (Read 8051 times)

DB