Drawing Templates from Photos

[James]

Hello, I am not a draftsman. I want to draw a full size template of #142 in Kindig's book. I seem to remember previous posts stating there are distortions when looking at the full length photos. With the limited info given in the book, what should I consider when doing the drawing so as to get it right? I don't have any method of just enlarging the photos. Thank you, Jim

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

the only distortion you will get with photographs are with regard to forshortening particularly when pictures are at an angle. If your photo is dead on perpendicular the image should be pretty accurate or as accurate as possible within the parameters of the lens that the camera used. Wider angle lenses will add a curve to straight lines the wider the more curve example fisheye lenses. The best lens for the most accuracy would be telephoto but maybe not the most pratical.

as far as blowing up an image from a book. Scan the image into your computer. Scale the image to the size you need, (this is where a photo edit program helps a lot) Then what I woud do is make it into several page size documents, each with enough overlap that I could reasonably reassemble the whole thing. When you enlarge the images from Kindig, at full size the images are not going to be very sharp, you will have to redraw the image somewhat but you at least will have a starting point. Images printed in books are made up of many dots of different sizes to produce a vision of grays and blacks. When you enlarge Kindig the dots will also enlarge causing the un-sharpness in the picture. Nothing you can do about itwithout going to the original photo.

Hope this helps.

[Paul Griffith]

I remember making a Henry Mauger rifle years ago & laying out the patchbox by scanning the picture & enlarging as Micah describes. Years later I had the privledge of making a bench copy of the original for the owner of same.  During this second building, with the original in the shop, I once again used my original enlargement as it was identical to the original patchbox.

[BillPac]

James;
When you have known dimensions given as in the RCA books you can measure the photo and scale up or down as is the case.  For example, lets say the butt plate is listed as 5 inches high, in the photo you measure it as 3.7 inches.  Divide 5 by 3.7 = 1.351351.  For that photo any feature you measure simply multiply the measured distance by 1.351351 and you will be very close to the original finished guns feature.  Hope that is clear.
BillP

[Jim Kibler]

If you want to try to enlarge a photo to create a pattern, just use a shot of the butstock region.  More distortion will be included in the picture if you try to use a full length shot.  You don't need the forward information anyway as it's determened by the barrel, ramrod groove etc.  Make sure the picture you use is taken perpendicular to the gun as well.  This process won't necessarily create a perfect profile pattern, but it is a decent starting point.

[Acer Saccharum]

I have enlarged drawings with a set of dividers. It's time consuming but it works, was how things were done for centuries. 

You can also draw a grid over the original, then draw another grid at the scale you want, and then locate the co-ordinates of each feature of the original onto your new grid, and draw between the points.

Artist drawings were enlarged in this way to ceilings and walls of chapels. Grids and dividers.

When the power goes out and the web goes down, make sure you have your dividers handy. Don't lend them out.

[Captchee]

 I do it much like Bill stated .
 I have never liked taking a photo and enlarging it  route .
 I chose to draw the plans out . But  you do need to have a given measurement as a base comparison. That can be an actual measurement given on the original OR the actual measurement of a part that you plan to use . IE a lock plate , cock , TG …..
 I  take that measurement and  input it into my proportional scale. This is nothing but a type of slide rule that  does basically what Bill stated  . but it also lets me take and individual item out of proportion /scale to the original photo  without effecting the rest of the enlargment
I also use a map protractor to define angles . Once I have an original drawn up . I then take that to the print shop and have them make a blueprint .

[eddillon]

Back in the old days when cameras needed film, I created a full size set of plans from an original J&S Hawken.  Set up my 35 mm perfectly vertical on a tripod.  Took a series of photos that included a 12 inch steel rule that was elevated to the same plane as the centerline of of the rifle.  Did my own developing and printing.  Super-imposed the image of the steel rule on the actual steel rule placed on the enlarger easel.  Voila!  Photoshop is so much easier.

[rsells]

The last couple of rifles I used the profile  pulled from digital photo's I had filed on my memory stick.  I take a side photo of the rifle making sure I am perpendicular with the subject.  I take a measurement of the trigger pull length for future reference.  I take the memory stick with the image on it and put it in a lap top computer which is hooked to a projector.  Pull up the photo and shoot the image on a wall.  I move the projector back or forward until I get the measurement of projected image's trigger pull length to match my reference measurement.  I tape poster board on the wall positioned so the full length photo or butt stock photo will be on the material and trace the outline, trigger position, and breech end of the barrel on the poster board to be cut out and used for a template to cut the profile out of the stock blank. 

I do a similiar process if I have a picture in a reference book with a known distance given in the info for the reference.  I use trigger pull length when possible, but have used butt plate height in some instances.  I use a Xerox machine to copy the photo on a piece of overhead material.  I then shoot the overhead on the wall and move the projector back or forward until the reference measurement on the project photo matches the info given and trace the outline on poster board for a template.  I hope I haven't confused anyone.
                                                 Roger Sells.

[James]

What is causing my concern is having only the length to work from as given in Kindigs book. If there is no distortion I should be able to calculate the areas in question.

[Captchee]

What is causing my concern is having only the length to work from as given in Kindigs book. If there is no distortion I should be able to calculate the areas in question.

well if you have a length and a side view of the complete  rifle  , then you can take the length of your photo  in relation to the actual  total length and start crunching numbers and making comparisons . Then start drawing out your plans 

[Blacksmoke]

James;      Some years ago I was faced with the same problem - I solved it by using an "Opaque Projector" from a local library.  I projected the rifle photo from RCA onto a blank sheet of paper which I taped to a wall and kept moving back till the trigger pull dimension matched the given dimension in the RCA book.  Then traced the entire gun and there was my pattern for the whole gun with all measurements as the original.                       Hugh Toenjes  

[Dphariss]

If you want to try to enlarge a photo to create a pattern, just use a shot of the butstock region.  More distortion will be included in the picture if you try to use a full length shot.  You don't need the forward information anyway as it's determened by the barrel, ramrod groove etc.  Make sure the picture you use is taken perpendicular to the gun as well.  This process won't necessarily create a perfect profile pattern, but it is a decent starting point.

Exactly.

Dan

[bgf]

Also, unless you are building a bench/documentary copy, just scale the photo until you get YOUR desired length of pull (original LOP is not in Kindig, anyway).  Everything will fall out pretty naturally from there, and all the measurements (including patchbox) will be in proportion.  You can blow up the buttstock picture (which does not extend to trigger) to match/calibrate, and take advantage of the greater detail and less distortion, also.  You will likely have to compromise in one or several respects, anyway, unless you intend to make your own lock, cast your own furniture, etc.  Keeping everything in the same proportion as the original is more critical to preserving the "look" than keeping the same measurements (obvious exceptions) in my untutored opinion.

[B.Barker]

Don't always trust the measurements given also. Most are correct but some belong to different guns and didn't get caught when book was proofed. I found this out when I stated making pipe axes.

[fm tim]

I would suggest that using Jim Kibler's strategy (use only the butt stock), and a relatively inexpensive wide format printer (HP makes a color one that prints on 13" X 19" for $200 and it does a lot more), lets you capture an image, then keep scaling it up to print until you get the LOP measurment (or whatever other part you are scaling from) that you want.  This would accomodate a 18.5" (allow for printer margins) length of pull - pretty big.  Admittedly, the edges of the printout are rough, but the general shape is easy to follow, and you have multiple copies of a "full size" print that you need.  Now you can use the same scale for other parts of the image if you have them.

[James]

To have the rifle look correct with a TP greater than the original, buttplate length, comb length etc need to be in the same proportions?

[Captchee]

 The others are right , you don’t need the whole rifle unless your only measurement is  total length
 Take the original length and  use the length of the photo to find the proportion  of reduction .
 Once you have that , you then can compute  the  butt plate , comb, TG ……. All you need . Let you barrel  dictate the forestock
 

[James]

OK, I think I get it. Thanks, Jim