Hawken pistol hooked breech

[smallpatch]

OK,

I'm currently doing battle with possibly the most difficult barrel/breech that I've ever worked with.

A Hawken Pistol hooked breech.  
I've carefully filed and fitted the hooked breechplug, filed it flush with the barrel flats, carefully fitted the tang/barrel junction so I've got a pretty good fit and it's ready to install , right??   Wrong, the tang is off by over a 1/4" from being centered with the centerline of the stock.  Just no way I can get it centered on the wrist of the stock.

I kind of went at this backwards, and ended up throwing away the first blank.  I assumed that the breechplug was alright, so I just inlet the tang squared up in the stock, and of course because its so off, the barrel won't fit into the inlet.

Any way, that's kind of off course.  The real question is, how can I get that tang back to center line??  I've tried bending it, but that puppy is really stout.



I'll try to get a couple of photos later.

[Dphariss]

Weld it up with a gas shielded wore welder to make metal where you need it then file to the proper contour.
As a friend once said "You bought a casting and did not buy a welder to go with it?"

Dan

[bgf]

I agree with the welder idea.  I'm working on a hooked breech, and it has been a pain from day one.  The first one I got looked like it had a void.  The second one is perfect relatively, but there's a lot of filing to match the flats and fit barrel/plug together!  I didn't want the tang that was attached, anyway, so that has been in my plans since day one; initially I thought that would be the time consuming part, but it looks pretty straightforward now .

[T*O*F]

Save yourself a lot of grief.  Cut the tang off the standing breech and weld on a strap of mild steel.  Then shape your new tang so it is properly centered on the barrel.

The problem is with the quality of the molds from which the castings are made.  They appear to be old sand casting molds where the cope and drag were not aligned resulting in the right side being offset and thicker than the left side.

Straightening them out is a process most of us without lathes or mills can't do easily.  They are difficult to measure because the snail is in the way.  Filing them flat doesn't solve the problem because the right side is still usually thicker.  This cocks the tang toward the left side.  Unfortunately, for some applications, there are no other plugs to choose from and we are stuck with using the bad ones.

[David Rase]

Dane,
I just went through the same thing a couple of years ago.  I don'r know if I was a 1/4" off, but it was at least 1/8" to 3/16".  I ended up welding the tang with my wire feed welder and then filing the tang to get it centered.

I don't want to give the ending away to the movie but once you get the tang welded, filed and centered you will then have to fight the hammer alignment.  I am assuming you are using TOTW Hawkin pistol parts.  A lot of people just twist the hammer to get it to align with the nipple.  Because misalignment was so severe and twisting the hammer looked terrible, I decided to cut the hammer in half at the top of the curve, realign the two pieces to center the hammer and make nipple contact and then once again, with my trusty wire feed welder, welded and built up the hammer and filed to shape.

Hang in there.  If you got questions let me know.  Like I stated earlier, I just went through the same rodeo.
Dave 

[T*O*F]

Welding yours may be simpler than the one I did.  Because it was more spiky, it was just easier to cut it off and reshape the welded piece.  If you look closely at your picture, there is a gap between the snail and the tang.  This is where the problem occurs.  Filing until they touch might correct the angle enough to bring it back into line.  However, it won't tip because your hook is already fitted.  It's a catch 22, because trying to correct it will most likely make your hook loose.  These castings really suck.

[Jim Kibler]

An example of how poor some of the parts for the muzzleloading industry really are.  ideally the tang / standing breech would be supplied somewhat oversize to allow variations in fitting location.  Seems these things are not often thought of though.  Make one completely for yourself and they become clear.  There's an order to things.

[smallpatch]

Thanks for the input guys.  Not sure what I'm going to do yet.  Don't have a welder.

That's what I get for thinking this was going to be an easy, slam together little shooter.

WoW!! was I wrong.

[John Archer]

I had the same problem with an English sporting rifle build. The tang was skewed off center and also slanted....I had to add weld to one side as well as the top. It worked out just fine.





John.

[Dave B]

I used this very same Hawken pistol breach and didnt know it was off. Till you pointed it out. I just fit the breach to the plug and soldered it in place then inlet it. Now  I check the alignment and it matches what you have discovered it is off center by just that amount. If I were to do it over I would file the face at a slight angle so the gap that is at the fence to the plug is closed and it would fasten up more square. yours is gapping in the same place that mine is. I just dug though my standing breach collection and found a new standing breach section as cast. I find that there is enough room to cant  the standing breach section to be in a good alignment. the key is grinding the face at the fence side to bring the fence into contact with the snail section. We are only talking about 2 degrees or so and your home free.