Shooting Hard Lead Shot in a ML barrel

[TNVolunteerEngineer]

Hornady sells 5 pounds of 000 Buckshot for about $20.  They are .350 diameter which is pretty good for shooting in a 36 caliber rifle.  There are probably 500 balls in a 5 pound bag.  That makes the cost less than half of 36 caliber ML balls. However, the shot is hardened with 5% antimony.  That will reduce the weight a little, not a real concern for a squirrel gun.  But what effect will the harder shot have on rifle loading and accuracy?   The patch will take up the windage in the bore, but I don't know if the projectile needs to obturate to seal the bore in a round ball gun and if there is any deformation of the bullet to engrave the lands during loading.    This would be akin to shooting steel ball bearings if you took this to an extreme absurdity.   I don't know of anyone shooting steel balls in their ML guns, so this is why I'd like your advice.

Allan

[doug]

     I have picked up a moderate number of round ball on the range, some after being shot in the snow.  I am not convinced, from their appearance, that round balls obturate to any significant amount..  I have also shot round ball through a 2 groove Lancaster (british) rifle and have seen no sign on the target that the balls have deformed into the grooves.  In this last regard, shooting a patched belted ball through the same gun does leave a distinctive hole  because the belt cuts a small notch on each side of the hole.

     What may be a problem is that if your patching is a bit on the thick side, it may be difficult to load because the ball does not deform as easily as pure lead but I think with only a 5% alloy, they will still be soft enough that loading should not be a problem

cheers Doug

[Frizzen]

I called them and talked to their tech dept. I was told the shot is 97% pure lead. I know you
can mark it with your thumb nail easy. I can also tell you that in patched round ball pistols
that it holds the National record pistol agg. set in 2005. It is so high that I don't believe it will
ever be broken. Marv  only dropped  22 points out of 600!!  to set the record. So the stuff will
shoot. It's all the wife and I shoot. I don't believe you will have any problem.

[Dphariss]

The "pure lead only for round balls" is a old wive's tale.
Tenacious but thats what it is.

Dan

[William Worth]

I would think that one concern might be, can the patch get traction on the ball? 

Furthemore, does the patch get damaged at loading when it is harder lead?

[Daryl]

Pure lead makes for easier loading with tight loads. The harder the ball, the more potential there is for patch damage when loading.

We shoot WW alloy balls in our large bores without problem, usually dropping down an extra .005" or .010" in size is all that's necessary. For instance, I shoot WW 15 bore balls (.677") from my 14 bore rifle, same patch as larger pure lead balls (.682").

Hardened lead shot will not damage your bore- shot of any lead hardness.

It is recommended by the shot manufacturers that when using iron shot, that your bore be protected by thick plastic wads made especially for that purpose, else the shot will score the bores, especially the choke.

[bob in the woods]

When going for moose, and sometimes for bear, I load my .62 rifle or 10 bore with balls cast of wheel weights .  i have a .600 and a .610 mold for the rifle. The smaller size with a heavier patch works well with the hard stuff.  The smoothbore doesn't care what it shoots. Incidentally , I also shoot hard lead balls in my paper cartridges . No problem at all.

[Daryl]

I also shoot WW in my .69 cal. rifle's paper ctgs. Bob. The hard balls loaded in paper ctgs. shoot into the exact same group - same size groups as well.

[Hungry Horse]

The biggest problem with alloyed lead for round balls, is that lead shrinks back as it cools after casting, and heavily alloyed lead doesn't shrink as much. This is why a gun that loads easily with pure lead balls, tends to load hard with alloyed balls. Thinner patching, or a mold five clicks smaller, work fine for plinking.

                               Hungry Horse

[zimmerstutzen]

I shot .75 steel ball bearings out of a musket before I knew better.  You could hear them bouncing around off of trees for two or three seconds after the shot

[flintlock]

The "pure lead only for round balls" is a old wive's tale.

Dan is right. I've corresponded with the founder of Cast Performance Bullet Co. He's a rifle builder and used to be a serious competitor. He told me, "If you read the writings of Southerland, Forsyth, Clifton, Cody, and Ashley you'll see ALL of them recommended hardening the balls."

So I recently started casting my own balls from wheel weights. The target below shows they will shoot! I shot this from a rest at 50 yards using my flintlock with open sights. There are 10 shots in the target, though only 9 are distinct. I don't claim to be a marksman and no one has ever mistaken me for one, so I'm pretty tickled.

How hard are the WW balls compared to pure lead? To find out I subjected one of each to the highly scientific 4-inch bench vise squeeze test. Basically, I squeezed the ball as hard as I could with one hand. The results are in the picture below. The WW ball is definitely harder.

I could definitely tell the WW balls were harder during loading. The 0.490" WW balls were much harder to load with my normal pillow ticking patches (0.018"), which I've used for years with 0.495 lead balls. I dropped down to 0.015" cotton patches and the WW balls load easily. That's what I used to shoot the target above.

[Eric Smith]

If the force behind the ball was the same wouldnt the softer lead spread and tear up more meat? I don't know. I'm askin'?

[flintlock]

If the force behind the ball was the same wouldnt the softer lead spread and tear up more meat? I don't know. I'm askin'?

Probably, but an elk can walk a long way with just one lung. I want to take out both lungs. The same guy who put me onto casting balls from wheel weights is personally aware of 6 elk taken with .490" WW balls. Only one ball was recovered. The rest passed completely through.

The pure lead ball below travelled through a small black bear, lodging under the skin on the far side.

Its total travel was no more than about 15 inches. (Bears shrink a LOT when you take their pajamas off.) True, this ball broke both shoulders on its journey, but I don't think that's sufficient for an elk. I'll give up some flattening in exchange for more penetration. (Interestingly, the ball in the picture only lost 2% of its weight.)

[bob in the woods]

I use wheelweights  for moose. Ether a .62 rifle, or a 10 bore smoothy.  They are awesome.