Author Topic: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC (Read 10247 times)

Dennis Glazener · « **on:** December 19, 2008, 12:38:36 AM »

The owner of this gun contacted me via my Gillespie Rifle website. The gun belonged to one of his ancestors that lived at Mills River NC. It was handed down through the family and was thought to have been made by one of the Gillespie gun makers that lived in Mills River. I see nothing about the gun that would make me think it was made by one of them but I did find the gun very interesting. I wondered if maybe one of you might have some thoughts on where it might have originated.

It has an octagon to round Damascus barrel. All the metal work has been refinished in bright blue. Its in excellent condition and the owner said his G Uncle used to hunt with it.

I could not help but think that the gun has a German or Austrian look to it. I wonder if it might have been imported from one of those areas. I thought it might have been made circa 1870 but really have no clue.

Any thoughts?
Dennis

More photos on these links

LynnC · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:07:29 AM »

Boy was I looking forward to those southern fowler pics - Oh well, thats a nice looking european shotgun.

Dennis - Are there any fowlers in existance made by your ancestors or their competitors. Any pics? After getting Grinslades Am. Fowler book and finding Zero southern fowlers in it, It's now my quest to see a few southen examples.
Thanks for any Info..............................Lynn

You know, I ought to start a new thread and ask about southern fowlers!

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:22:26 AM »

Quote

Dennis - Are there any fowlers in existance made by your ancestors or their competitors. Any pics? After getting Grinslades Am. Fowler book and finding Zero southern fowlers in it, It's now my quest to see a few southen examples.
Thanks for any Info..............................Lynn

Lynn,
The only one I know of was made from an old 1700's French flintlock musket then later was converted to a breech loader. Owner claims it was made by one of the Mills River Gillespie's but who knows. Anyway all he did was convert the military musket, didn't build it from scratch.

Dennis

TPH · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:12:46 AM »

Dennis, that stock design is fairly common, if he had show any proof marks they would likely tell the story. I believe it is Belgian but over the years I have heard people say that stocks of that design were French.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:18:57 AM »

Nice European fowling piece, and do appreciate having the opportunity to see it. A large number of the guns with an animal motif on the understock seem to be Belgian, but other
makers in other countries did it too.
The subject of an NC fowler was brought up; are we talking a true shot gun here, or smooth rifle? I have seen a fine double flint fowler marked to Charleston, SC with bag and horns.
Bivins conjectured in his book on NC guns that no smooth rifles seem to have been made domestically since he could not find one. Well, John was too quick to speak. There is one; it has a 49 inch barrel, was flint and has a cheekrest, but no box. There are inlays, and the intials 'f. B.' are engraved on the top flat of the half round barrel. Wood is plain maple and full stocked with brass furniture and silver insets. It has some engraving in unexpected places.
Owner has had it photographed and it will be available here, soon.
Best-Dick

LynnC · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:57:26 AM »

Yes Dennis, I was hoping for a scratch built. Maybe one will turn up!

TPH - I agree, Belgium, France or?

Mr.nogold - I'm refering to the single bbl flint fowler and perhaps the southern smooth rifle similar to the Kentucky fowler.

Would LOVE to see the photos - Can't wait..........................Lynn

LynnC · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2008, 06:00:04 AM »

You all have heard the same story concerning the southern guns - "They were all used up in the War". I'm not convinced..........................Lynn

mr. no gold · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2008, 07:35:50 AM »

Lynn-Will get them up as soon as it can be done, from this end. A few days at most.
Dick

Sam Everly · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2008, 08:25:47 AM »

Not all used up, how about destroyed. Earl Lanning told me that after the civil war they where rounded up and destoyed . He said there where several period news paper storys about the north taking the guns from the southerns. Not just a few but thousands . The where trying to disarm the south .

LynnC · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2008, 07:48:23 PM »

Thanks mr.nogold - will wait patiently.

Sam - Probably true....................Lynn

doug · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2008, 07:50:16 PM »

I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that the gun is belgian; the carved wrist is very typical of them. If you check the barrel at the bottom breach area, you will probably find ELG* in an oval as well as a perron which looks like a miniature Eiffel tower and possibly a stamp that looks like a double english pound sign

cheers Doug

Feltwad · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2008, 09:48:17 AM »

I would say the gun is Belgium as for the date of 1870 I would also say it is later,the cap box the Belgium manufactures were using these up till the 1950s on their sxs muzzle loading shotguns,it also should have the Belgium proof marks.
I have enclosed a couple of images of a sxs rifle that I restored early in the year with similar carving.
Feltwad

ptk1126 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2008, 04:25:40 PM »

I would also say Belgian as it is similar to a double barrel 16 ga Belgian shotgun that I own.
Here are a few pix:

All the best
Paul

Curt J · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2008, 05:38:58 AM »

I too, would bet on the gun being Belgian. I had one very similar to it that I gave to my son. It had been handed down through a local family here. Mine hade the usual Liege "ELG" in an oval proof mark. These guns are pretty hard to date, since they were imported here from the 1850's on.

I have also seen a very high quality percussion double shotgun made in Davenport, Iowa, by a gunsmith from Germany named Henry Berg, which had a carved animal's head in that location.

altankhan · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2008, 08:01:51 PM »

I once had a half-stock rifle with a similar head -- though a boar, rather than a deer -- it was marked A. W. Spies, New York, and was almost certainly a European import handled by an American firm

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Author Topic: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC (Read 10247 times)

Dennis Glazener

Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC

LynnC

Re: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC

Dennis Glazener

Re: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC

TPH

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mr. no gold

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LynnC

Re: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC

LynnC

Re: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC

mr. no gold

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Sam Everly

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LynnC

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doug

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Feltwad

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ptk1126

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Curt J

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altankhan

Re: Interesting old muzzleloading shotgun from Mills River NC