Author Topic: Hawken from the ashes (Read 8947 times)

tallbear · « **on:** July 06, 2012, 09:58:41 PM »

One gun I never had any real interest in building was a Hawken.Last summer a long time reenactor friend of mine brought me a sack of nasty looking rifle parts.His camper caught fire during a hunting trip and his original Green River Rifle Works Hawken was inside.He sifted the ashes and retrived all the parts he could find and asked if I would rebuild his rifle.He bought the rifle in 1969 and it held many fond memories for him.It was also his only percussion gun among his many flintlocks.I agreed and here are the results.As always comments are welcome.

Mitch

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2012, 10:11:41 PM »

I know nothing of Hawken rifles, looks fine to me. I like the color. Maybe somebody who knows Hawken rifles can do a better job of critiquing than me.

tallbear · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2012, 10:28:00 PM »

Yea I know "nice wood"

It's a piece Freddie harrison gave me on a wood buying trip down to his place.Nobody wanted it as it was halfstock and full of bark inclusions.

Mitch

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2012, 10:50:52 PM »

Nice bark inclusions!

I thought that was a piece of NY acer saccharum for a moment!

That's a great way to preserve the sentiment.

Tom

Daryl · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2012, 11:09:27 PM »

Looks fine to me, Mitch. I also like that piece of reject Maple.

Eric Smith · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2012, 12:49:57 AM »

Mitch, you outdo yourself every time! Very nice piece. I bet the guy was very happy with the result.

FRJ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2012, 12:55:58 AM »

I like Hawkens and thats one nice looking rifle. One question though, after all that metal was in a fire how is the hardening or temper of it? Will the barrel be straight and shootable? Just simple questions to the fire issue I have had before and never brought up. FRJ

wattlebuster · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2012, 02:13:27 PM »

I think ya did a fine job Mitch. My only question is the same as FRJ. Would a fire not change the strength of the metal such as temper of lock springs and of course strenght of barrel steel. Other than that you gave the old gal new life

heelerau · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2012, 02:18:37 PM »

Quote from: FRJ on July 07, 2012, 12:55:58 AM

I like Hawkens and thats one nice looking rifle. One question though, after all that metal was in a fire how is the hardening or temper of it? Will the barrel be straight and shootable? Just simple questions to the fire issue I have had before and never brought up. FRJ

Ditto to the above. My main interest is the barrel condition? I guess the lock can be re hardened, and springs either re tempered or replaced. Was the barrel warped?
Lovely looking rifle. I live in a wooden house with open fires etc and have often wondered if any of my long guns would be recoverable after having been through a fire. Hope never to have to find out..
cheers

Gordon

Bob Roller · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:13:16 PM »

I have a lock here that I made in 1968,a percussion style and it survived a bad fire but the springs are still active but feeble and must be rehardened (maybe) and retempered.
I had a set of Hawken triggers returned after a tragic fire that were beyond hope. I built a light 50 caliber offhand match rifle in 1972 that was totalled in a fire beyond help after I sold it.
Fires are horrible but at least you know what happened to your property whereas a @!*% thief is even worse IMHO.

Bob Roller

tallbear · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2012, 04:16:37 PM »

Thanks guys!!

Tom
I thought about using the NY wood but as it is nice and thick I saved it for an earlier rifle.The piece from Freddie was on the thin side.

I had to reharden the springs and lock parts on the lock and triggers.I cycled the lock several times once the gun was done and it seems fine.Not sure it was nessacary for the springs on the triggers as they really don't have much travel .While the outside of the barrel was heavily pitted the inside seems fine although covered with some crud.I pulled the breach which was no easy feat.I then poured a lead lap and easily cleaned up the inside with that.The outside I left the pitting at the owners request to show the ordeal his rifle had gone through.The barrel seems straight but I can always bend it if it needs it once it's sighted in.The parts cooled slowly after the fire as no fire dept was available to put out the fire so I kind of viewed it as the parts were stress relived

The owner and I did proof the barrel a couple of times before I built the gun.

Mitch

FRJ · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2012, 05:47:11 PM »

Tallbear, thanks for the response on my question. Glad to hear that the barrel proofed good. FRJ

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2012, 05:48:41 PM »

Mitch, you've done a very nice job on the rifle. It is instantly recognizable as a Hawken rifle, and the fit and finish is excellent. I do not consider myself anything close to being an 'expert' on Hawken rifles, but I've studied everything I can find on them, as well as a very cool original that Don Stith graciously allowed me to fondle and photograph. So I have some very strong opinions about their architecture.
This is the hard part...partially for the above reasons, and partially because no two of them are exactly alike. I feel that the comb on your rifle is just a smidge too high, and perhaps a little too rounded at the transition to the wrist. On almost all of the rifles I've studied, the comb is quite thick - not shaved down to a knife edge, and though you have not provided a photo from above, the profile gives that suggestion.
I commend you on the perch belly of the underside of the butt stock...it's about perfect. The cheek piece might have been left about 3/8" longer toward the butt plate, and the termination at the muzzle end, finish a little below the wrist's centre line. The Hawken rifle is much deeper though the lower forearm than Kentucky rifles, and most other muzzle loading rifles, for that matter. So it's tricky getting the lower lock panel in proportion to the panel above the lock plate. Your lower panel appears a little wide, but that's really nit picking. But the panel for'd of the lock's bolster is too heavy/wide. Many Hawken rifles' panels begin as you have done: a slight radius for'd of the lock's bolster, blending in to the horizontal plate and then extending past the nose of the plate, just as you have done. But that area just above the for'd part of the plate appears a little too wide, to me.
Finally, and again this is really grasping at straws, your forearm seems to me to be a little short. I know that some were made just as you have done, but with that long barrel - what is it, at least 36"?...the forearm might have been left a couple of inches longer.
None of this is meant in disrespect for the great job you've done on your rifle, Mitch. I love looking at Hawken rifles and yours is no exception. Thanks for posting .

TMerkley · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2012, 06:07:48 PM »

Great looking rifle!

This is in response to some of the questions concerning the barrel withstanding the fire.

There a couple of factors that would come into play if the metal was weakened.

One is the heat of the fire, the other is how long was it that hot.

If the fire died out relatively quicly within an hour or two, it would probably not greatly affect the strength of the metal. If it was that hot for a period of several hours and allowed cool slowly then it would be annealed. If the barrel was for modern pressures, then I would have it re heat treated. But for blackpowder it apparently is ok. Great work! How much powder did you use for your proof?

KLMoors · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2012, 07:11:30 PM »

Really nice save!!

I thought the forend looked a little short too, but it still looks nice as it is to my eye.

I too am real glad you proofed the barrel!

billd · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2012, 11:51:41 PM »

Acer,
Didn't you throw that Jaeger barrel in the fire on purpose? How hot was that? I watched a local, now deceased, gunsmith solder the barrels of a Fox double back together. It was in a fire hot enough to burn the stock almost almost completely and melt the solder. It shot fine when he was done.

Bill

tallbear · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2012, 02:39:10 AM »

Taylor
I was hoping you would chime in.As someone who's done a bunch of these I figured there were some things you would see that I missed.I have added your suggestions to my notes for next time.

I basically use double charge and double ball as a proof load.This coincides with what Dixie has in the back of their book.For this .54 I used 160 grs of FFg and two balls.I took measurements every six inched.To be honest i wasn't really worried about the barrel being in the fire but the owner was.Being in the fire is basically the same as charcoal bluing.

Mitch

TMerkley · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2012, 05:05:25 AM »

I had to clear a barrel obstruction in a .22 Flobert parlor rifle. I built a fire in the fireplace using hickory and let it burn down to orange coals. Put the barrel in until it turned about dark blue and used a steel rod to beat the obstruction out. The obstruction was an old broken file and an old coat hanger wire that had been stuck in the barrel since the 40's. Along with several lead bullets lodged. Being a thick barrel and low charge, I did not have any issues either.

mike learn · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2012, 07:25:57 AM »

That is a beautiful Hawken. Nice work saving it!!!

heelerau · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2012, 05:49:23 PM »

Tall Bear,
thank you for answering my questions re barrel condition etc. Once agin a lovely rifle.

Cheers

Gordon

News:

Author Topic: Hawken from the ashes (Read 8947 times)

Daryl

FRJ

FRJ

billd

mike learn