20 ga smoothbore

[Jeff Peters]

I'm new to the smoothbore thing, just finished my first one and had her to the range the other day.
I need my youngest son to get a few photos to post here before he's back to college
I'm told a 20 ga is 62 cal. Is this correct?
If I messure the bore it's 61.45. Is that the choke?
I tried 80 & 90 gr of 2 f and 6 shot, and it didn't throw to bad of a pattern, a bit high of the point of aim though.
I have allot of work to do working up different shot and powder charges to see which works best.
I tried a .61 ball and a .20 lubed patch and I could not get the ball in the gun.
.20 patches were all I had at the time.
I set a 80 gr charge down the barrel, an over powder card, lubed wad and then the ball just rolled right down the barrel.
I used an overshot card to hold the ball in place. I wasn't sure the ball would stay against the charge with out it.
Once I get some thinner, but tight patches to get past the choke, will the choke make the ball loose in the barrel?
Balls shot consistently 9 inches high at 25 yrds.
I'm thinking I may need to lower the rear sight quiet a bit, but want to shoot patched balls first to see where they are hitting.
The front sight is low profile and solder to the barrel.
Again this was my first time taking this girl to the dance
Just looking for some advice from those with experience
Any advise would be appreciated

Thanks
Jeff

[Roger Fisher]

So, you intend to shoot her in r ball matches or is she a hunting piece?

Reason I ask is that unless you shoot the 'sighted' smoothbore matches i.e. the territorials you probably will find the matches are: flintlock, no rear sight and no sett trickkers.  What ???uses is she for

[Daryl]

20 Bore is actually .615".  I understand that some makers use a .62 cal. barrel & finish reamers, etc, but don't rifle them then call them 20 bores. They are actually 1/2 way between 20's and 19's, ie: .615" vs. .626".

If it has an actual bore size of .620" but measures .6145", then it is choked approximately improved cylinder. If it has no choke, then it is what would be called a "true" 20 bore, not a .62 cal. smoothbore.

 

[Vomitus]

 Hey Jeff,
   What Roger is saying,flintlock trade gun matches(smoothbore) won't allow a rear sight  or set triggers. With two sights,there are a few competitions that the NMLRA have called "territorials" that allow a two sighted smoothbore to compete in. So if you are going to hunt with it, you do as you want. If you want to shoot competition,there are stipulations.
 

[Jeff Peters]

Rodger & Leatherbelly,
I plan on using it for hunting, turkeys and I wouldn't mind trying it for deer.
That's the reason for the rear site and trying the patched ball (for deer).
Sounds like I need some smaller round balls say .60

Thanks to all for the advice
Jeff

[Vomitus]

 Just my thoughts.If your bore is .6145, you may want to try a .595 RB and a .020 or thicker patch. A short starter is a very helpful loading tool. Also, by using a jag and cleaning rod with a tight cleaning patch,check to see if your bore is choked. Feel free to PM me on here.

quote;\You should be able to tell if your barrel is choked by feeling the resistance as you push a jag with a cleaning patch wrapped around it down the bore.   You'll feel less resistance where the bore opens up, more resistance where the bore is constricted.;/Quote
  Good info. Try it.

[Daryl]

I-too have a .614" muzzle, with a .620" bore on my smoothbore. I use a .595" ball and 10 ounce denim, which is .020", a .021" back/white ticking or the red/white/blue .023" mattress ticking patch. They all load easily with a nicely radiused crown and it's only 2 fingers once past the choke.
This is my 20 bore, being smoothly radiused at the crown, to allow easy loading. Turn the barrel periodically (every 15 seconds) as you rotate your wrist and thumb to get an even crown - you will make a perfect crown - easily. I use 320 grit then sometimes finish with 600 or crocus cloth. A wad of cloth or paper towel, fetched out of the barrel afterwards with tweezers or a 'worm', will prevent grindings and emery stone  from falling down the bore.



The finished result.

[satwel]

After a lot of trial and error, I found that a .590 ball delivers the best results in my 20 ga. I use a .015 patch and can start it with thumb pressure. .600 balls were a waste of time since I had to use too thin a patch. .575 balls with denim patches were a slight improvement over the .600 balls. I even tried wrapping the .600 balls in aluminum foil - like the NSSA guys do in their Model 1842 smoothbores - that didn't work either. I stumbled upon a gently used .590 Rapine mold and now all is right with the world.

[Jeff Peters]

Leather Belly,
I did notice that where the barrel got tight as I cleaned it after shooting
It seamed to be mostly right at the muzzle
I'll have to find some smaller balls and see which works the best
Daryl,
I haven't done anything to the inside of the muzzle. I'll give it a try with some 320 - 400 - and then 600
I can see from the photo that your just knocking the edge off
Thanks to all for the comments

Jeff

[hanshi]

Using a .600" ball in my smoothbore requires a very thin patch (.010") and is a very hard load to seat.  I ordered a Jeff Tanner mold for a .590" ball and use that with a .020" patch.  This combo loads more easily and is showing a promise of real accuracy.  I cast smoothbore ball out of WW metal.

[Vomitus]

  Jeff,
    It sounds like you've got a slightly choked muzzle. Do what Daryls said and radius the crown. Make a short starter.If you are stumped on how to make one,Daryl posted a bunch he made and they are quite easy to make.(look in archives,Short Starter) Then go back and try the .020 patch and the .600 RB. I'll betcha it will work just fine.It may need a sharp rap to start the ball at the muzzle, but it will push down to your starters length with a couple of pushes.Sloppy wet patch,don't forget,sloppy! Push the ball down with short 6 to 8 inch increments.If you try to "Fess Parker" the ball down in one long stroke,you risk busting your ramrod in two and skewering your hand or wrist. Thin patch for me is a no no. You end up with a totally fouled bore in 2 or three shots and then you will have to swish the bore out.With a tight bore,ball,patch combination and a good sloppy wet patch,you push the fouling from your last shot down on top of the powder and the bore is clean! Shoot all day long, 40-60 shots or more and no wiping! When you clean up at home, it's like cleaning a once shot bore.No kidding,this works good.

[Vomitus]

   Hanshi,

I'll bet those WW balls are larger then .595. Wheel weights tend to swell after or during cooling. Mike 'em for curiosities sake. I'd guess they'd mike at .600  to .607.

[Daryl]

WW normally casts around .002" over what the mould casts in pure lead.  Just because it says .595" or .60" on the blocks, does not mean it casts that size even in pure lead. One must measure the balls to know what they measure.
My .595" Tannermould casts .597" and they work perfectly with the thicker patches. Due to the short choked section, it's easy to put a really tight combination down past the choke with a smackon the starter's knob with the shaft on the muzzle seated ball.  After that, it's easily pushed down on top of the powder - simple stuff.

I firmly agree with LB- thin patches have no place in muzzleloading.

Taylor's .620 Smoothbore is loaded by him using pure lead balls from his Lee .600" ball mould. That mould casts .605" X .608" balls - so - you never know until you measure them. He's very accurate with it, winning more than one round ball event at Rendezvous with that combination. At times, you'd think he was shooting a rifle. That's just the way it is, with him and that dang smoothbore that LB sold him back - 

[Vomitus]

  Dear Auto Correct.
Please stop editing my swear words,you
piece of shut!

[hanshi]

  Hanshi,

I'll bet those WW balls are larger then .595. Wheel weights tend to swell after or during cooling. Mike 'em for curiosities sake. I'd guess they'd mike at .600  to .607.

The mold (.590") does cast a soft lead ball of about .590".  With WW metal it comes out about .592-3".  I'd prefer it just a couple k larger but they do work fine.  My .600" mold casts about .603ish"  with WW.  Ave. of 3 or 4 measurements.

[Daryl]

LB  


You gotta admit, you do like the new .54 SB - or is it for sale now?  I've got a really accuract 20 bore 1/2 stock for sale or trade?

[Vomitus]

 I got 400 for her!

[smokinbuck]

Jeff,
I use either .590 or .595 ball in my 20 ga depending on the patch size I have available. I find the .590 much easier to load and the accuracy does not seem to be effected, based on my ability, or lack of.
Mark

[northmn]

I have not finished my 20 bore "smooth rifle"  but found that the 600 ball works fine.  Some claim more accuracy out of a 595 ball or so but I can get up to a 4" group at 75 yards with my combo.  I take a lot of care in loading and load the parting line from the cast toward the sight and sprue up.  A tight fitting patch works fine but I found that a too tight may also be detrimental or add nothing.  Mine works fine with shot, but without a choke tends to cover a lot of area.

DP

[Daryl]

Mine won't stay on an 11" X 8" target at 50yards, but shoots into 1" at 25 yards. That's with both .595's X .595's form my Tanner mould and with .605's X .608's from Taylor's Lee mould.  My barrel has a normal European-type choke shape (with end choke) at Improved Cylinder. Not finished testing with it, YET!

[Jeff Peters]

Thanks to all for the advice.
I was in the Bald Eagle State forest over the weekend to visit my so who has a seasonal job as a forester there.
Stopped by a gun shop on Rt 45 Saturday and picked up some .595 balls to try shooting Sunday.
Then I had the the tention wheel to the serpentine belt disintegrated in the truck early Sunday am leaving me a bit stranded in the forest in the middle of no where. I took a few hours to get towed out leaving me now time to shoot yesterday. I'm looking forward to shooting her next weekend and trying the patched ball and a few more shot load combinations

Jeff

[Daryl]

Better luck with shooting your smoothie, than you've had with the truck.  Same thing happened to my Ford, then my Daughter's Volkswagon - They were old so we dumped both - HA! - it was THEIR time.  The Ford only cost $90.00 to fix - her diesel car was just over $1,000.00.