Author Topic: "J. Moll of Allentown" (Read 10884 times)

Robert Wolfe · « **on:** July 07, 2012, 05:30:27 PM »

If anyone is interested, there is a "J. Moll of Allentown" pictured on the IMA site (http://www.ima-usa.com/original-flintlock-pennsylvania-long-rifle-by-j-moll-of-allentown.html?utm_content=rwolfe%40jfnew.com&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=&utm_campaign=IMA-USA%2ECOM-%20New%20Items%20%26%2072%20Hour%20Sales%21%20July%202012content).

The gun has been over cleaned but the wood is interesting, not typical striped maple.

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2012, 05:41:31 PM »

I don;t even know where to start with that. Those folks obviously have no clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to dating. The barrel signature is VERY interesting. If it's (the signature) legitimate, my first impression is that it's possibly a John II but more probably a John III barrel and the rest of the gun might be a restock.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2012, 06:41:38 PM »

Wow. That is really amazing.

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »

Quote from: Eric Kettenburg on July 07, 2012, 05:41:31 PM

I don;t even know where to start with that. Those folks obviously have no clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to dating. The barrel signature is VERY interesting. If it's (the signature) legitimate, my first impression is that it's possibly a John II but more probably a John III barrel and the rest of the gun might be a restock.

I think your right on the money Eric.

Frank

JDK · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2012, 11:29:18 PM »

On the picture of the muzzle there appears to be a piece dovetailed into the end of the rib. Thought that it might just be stratches but I don't know. Strange.

Deffinitely not the typical Allentown gun.

Enjoy, J.D.

JCKelly · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2012, 12:57:50 AM »

Being sometimes a Wet Blanket, I might suggest some reasonably skilled guy had old parts & an idea what a rifle should look like. The flat rectangular brass under-rib is innovative. Not to mention the beaver thumb-piece and on the cheek that robin with a shield on his breast. Puzzling to me that the vent liner, made of some yellow metal, is turning green. Like brass does but not like a gold liner. Which one rarely sees on American flint halfstocks. And the wood!!!!
Well, someone went to a lot of trouble and did shoot it, and kept grease in the patchbox. Looks a h--- of a lot better than my first few guns.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2012, 02:10:13 AM »

Have any of you seen a pre-Rev War rifle with only one lock bolt

? More in the 1825 or later isn't it?
Dennis

Curt J · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2012, 04:57:46 AM »

Looks like a re-creation using old parts, done by someone with considerable skill but limited knowledge. That's a fantastic piece of birds-eye maple!

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2012, 05:47:59 AM »

I've been trying to shy away from absolute statements, especially when internet pictures are concerned. Hence, my writing "MIGHT" be a restock. But let's face it - I think we all KNOW it's some kind of weird restock. Aside from the barrel, I think the buttplate and guard were also from the original gun but have been filed-upon pretty heavily. Too bad. Crazy piece of wood, that's for sure.

Bill of the 45th · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2012, 08:38:16 AM »

Obviously the author can't tell the difference between Birdseye, and Tiger maple. The Robin/Parrot/Eagle in the Federal cheek piece is obviously at the earliest 1790, and doesn't have 13 stars, let alone not being around before the Revolution. if not later, the beaver, and squirrel are also out of place. The under rib, would be more appropriate if it was wood. Lastly I don't see Allentown in the profile. It looks to me like an 1870's restock of a found, and cut down barrel, because of all the out of period inlays. That's my poorly educated guess.

Bill

JV Puleo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2012, 06:44:39 PM »

"Those folks obviously have no clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to dating."

Quite true. The lock is a very late B'ham import... I'd say close to 1830. But, for a real eye opener check out their Pre-Brown Bess Dog Lock" musket with the post-1813 proof marks.

Howard · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:27:13 PM »

Well I'm no expert but I will put my foot in my mouth once again. I just glanced at it & didn't really study it but could this beaver been added & couldn't this be a old restock used at friendship years ago?

jdm · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:36:13 AM »

I'm in the restock camp also. The guy who did it picked a dandy piece of wood. JIM

smshea · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2012, 12:45:08 AM »

Eric

Have you seen a signature like that one before?

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2012, 03:41:56 PM »

I had one here that I think was a late John III, and it was signed MOLL * ALLENTOWN with the same kind of font, but it still looked like a Lehigh type with the curved stock and all. Not like this thing!

ima-usa · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2012, 04:24:09 PM »

Forum members- Thanks very much for pointing out the issues with this J.MOLL rifle. We removed it from our website until it can be correctly
advertised. Furthermore, the owner of IMA, Christian Cranmer, asked me to post this response and let people know we appreciate your input and our mistake was just that, a mistake. Thanks, Alex @IMA.

Well the hardest thing to do is admit when you are wrong and clearly I am quite wrong with regard to our flintlock rifle marked "J.MOLL, ALLENTOWN" and now I have to eat some crow!

As stated the gun came to us recently from a collection in England. Despite my looking up J.Moll and finding pre revolutionary dates with
only one side screw and a host of other reasons the gun almost certainly dates after 1820. I was preoccupied with the lack of a
frizzen reinforcement attached to the pan which was something the British abandoned in the 1770s.

It is also clear that is our "first" Pennsylvania Long Rifle, I am English and that is where what knowledge I have is from, NOT an excuse, but perhaps it is an explanation for my error.

The flintlock rifle does have interesting features, especially the Bird's Eye Maple Stock, not of course "Curly" Maple as I had stated, and a host of brass inlays, the Federal Eagle on the Butt Cheek also a real giveaway for not being pre-1776. My face gets redder and redder.

So there you have it, if this is the last time I screw things up it will be a miracle, however, it is a tribute to the internet and
collector forums like this one that so much information is so instantly available. So I'd like to thank all you who contributed to
my shame and I'll try and do better in future. Our newsletter reaches nearly 50,000 people and that is a lot of eyes watching me.
Thankfully, we removed it before some unknowing customer purchased it but had they before we could correct our mistake we would certainly given a complete refund.

Sincerely,

Christian Cranmer
IMA Inc.

spgordon · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2012, 04:53:07 PM »

Bravo!

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2012, 04:58:11 PM »

We admire your integrity! Many have abandoned theirs!
Thanks
Dennis

b bogart · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »

I think there should be no shame or embarassment. Lack of knowledge and honest mistakes are just that
! The shame etc would have been continuing with those claims after learning different. That the correections were made speaks volumes about this firm, and it's proprietor.

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2012, 05:17:17 PM »

Excellent! Your comments show that your company has integrity, and that's (unfortunately so) a rare commodity these days.

Frank

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Author Topic: "J. Moll of Allentown" (Read 10884 times)

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