supporting inlays

[Acer Saccharum]

I have always been very careful to get my inlays set to the right depth, carefully paring out the wood underneath, to get good support.

But I have had the pleasure(or pain) of working on some old guns that needed some inlays made up to fill some missing ones. As I made the inlay, and get it ready to fit, I prepped the pocket by scraping out the old crud. But this old crud has a consistency of violin rosin. I began to wonder if it was a 'bedding compound' used to level and support an inlay.

I tried using pitch to level and support an inlay on a recent gun. A touch of heat, and the inlay can be moved, or leveled easily. Once cooled, it is firm as cement.

Anybody have thoughts on this?

A Jacob Kuntz patchbox finial, so very thin, yet complicated. Is it supported by pitch, or similar compound?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Why would he have not used pitch or something like it...I doubt he was sending it to be judged at Dixon's...assuming anyone could tell.... It seems like a reasonable thing to do especially if it was difficult to get a good fit on the wood... suppose he had to cover a mistake of taking too much wood out??? 

[Acer Saccharum]

Thanks, Tim. I knew I could count on your wise-XXX opinion. 

[Long John]

Acer,

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they did something like you are suggesting.  Look at the area in the piercing in your photo.  It doesn't look like wood!  Perhaps it is stock finish?  Even the perimeter of the patch box head seems to have black stuff where the brass meets the wood.  Is that stock finish or something else used to fill in where the brass meets the wood?  I wonder if that is pitch.  Do you think the Museum would let us scratch a little of that off and get it analyzed?

I love the way he integrated horse heads and human faces into the engraving!

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Lucky R A]

   Colored "burn in sticks" or "Shellac sticks," have been used for years to fix boo-boos.  Since we know for certain that Shellac was available in colonial times, it seems an easy extrapolation to guess that it was also used as a fill or leveling medium that was heat sensitive.

[Daryl]

Personall, I have to use, and do like Epoxy.  It merely looks like they used their own formulation of bedding compound - why no? 

[smart dog]

Hi Acer,
Is there any evidence that it might be hide glue rather than simply a filler?  A few years ago, I had the chance to look closely at a flintlock made in Afghanistan during the early 19th century.  It used recycled Brown Bess parts and had the  mosaic-like inlays of bone, wood, and horn typical of the region.  The inlays were all set into some sort of colored mastic that filled the gaps and probably held them in place.  It was well done and attractive because the mastic was also part of the design. 

dave

[SuperCracker]

on a related note.  Where would one come up with pitch?

[Dale Campbell]

Nearest pine tree.

[Acer Saccharum]

Pitch: Rio Grande jewelry supply. One antique formula is a blend of rosin(pine tree) and asphaltum(natural tar) and some dry plaster of Paris. Blend in varying proportions for softer or harder support.

[Eric Smith]

Could you provide a link to the pitch you refer to? Not sure if I am looking at the same page on pitch at Rio Grande.

[T*O*F]

I used to go elk hunting in CO every year.  While meandering in the wilderness, I noticed numerous pitch pines with huge globs of dried pitch on them.  I started taking a small hatchet with me during the afternoons, when the hunting was slow.  Once I got a bagful, I would fill a bean can with it and set it by the campfire.  It would melt down and some of the volatiles would boil off.  This is necessary so that it hardens properly, instead of staying gummy.

When I got home and needed some for a project, I would remelt a chunk and add powdered charcoal to it.  This is an old recipe for resin glue.  It could be used to back inlays, fill bark inclusions and wormholes, and to bed tangs and such.  Mixed with sawdust, it could be used to bed barrels, which under international rules, must be done with natural materials......no epoxy.  It could also be used to glue parts together.

[boman]

 I have an ohio caplock that has the nosecap glued on/supported by some kind of "black substance" that could be asphaltum, pitch w/ charcoal?

  Here's a link where one can get raw pitch/rosin.  I have a pound of it and mix it with beeswax for a sticky wax on linen thread used when stitching hunting pouches, slings etc.

http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?products_id=373

Steve

[Pete G.]

I have heard that some builders might even use the colored crayon sticks sold at Lowe's to fill in gaps around inleting, but that was guys on another board. Nobody here would ever do that.

[Dave B]

Tom, It was done with pitch on a pair of pistols I examined to bed the fine silver  butt caps. The other inlays are very thin but I couldn't tell if they were backed by pitch or not but the pommel caps were.

[Eric Smith]

I have an ohio caplock that has the nosecap glued on/supported by some kind of "black substance" that could be asphaltum, pitch w/ charcoal?

  Here's a link where one can get raw pitch/rosin.  I have a pound of it and mix it with beeswax for a sticky wax on linen thread used when stitching hunting pouches, slings etc.

http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?products_id=373

Steve

Thanks for the link, Bowman. This is an interesting thread. I hope it doesnt dry up. Seems pitch can be used for a number of things.

[SuperCracker]

Nearest pine tree.

lol. I figured I'd get that answer at least once.

[LRB]

  Here's another source for pitch
http://www.pinonpinepitch.com/

[cmac]

I believe that pitch may have been used. Maybe more as a sealer than a leveling or supporting agent? Maybe shellac or a tallow?

[Acer Saccharum]

Pitch has been used since ancient times for supporting thin sheet metal in repousse and chasing work.

A medusa head I started a while back. Set in pitch, then worked with punches. Metal is about .022 thick, and no metal has been removed, ie: filing or chiseling. It's all been pushed up from the back with punches, then turned over, filled with pitch, and set back in the pitch bowl. Then worked from the front with chasing punches, miniature punches of various shapes, but all polished and rounded. No sharp edges, for that would cut the metal.

Metal is about 2 x 2". Great technique for thumbpieces or fancy sideplates.

The black tar surround is the pitch. Brittle when cold, pliable yet resilient when warm. Stinks when burnt.

[mtgraver]

Tom,
I've not encountered any bedding on any of the old guns I've worked on. I typically would not be concerned since the tensile strength of even a thin piece of metal with decent inlet and support wouldn't bend unless caused by undue stress, like a hard knock but not by normal use. I've always considered a 95% bed or pocket as quite enough support. The larger the piece the more concerned about the support.
The pitch you refer to is easily dissolved by alcohol, shellac not so much but will dissolve over night.  I like the red German pitch for repousse' it has a better absorption of heat and doesn't squish as much as the tar based and smells a lot better. I think what some of you folks may be thinking about for a similar use is a rosin based compound that will get very hard. You find it in candle stick bases and some knife handles that are thin sheet with chase/repousse' surface. I don't know the formula but would have the characteristic as you described ...... scraped it out. I don't know if the stuff is affected by alcohol or other solvents. Something else that I've seen on old guns is the build up of old polish and waxes that forms a hard layer in crevices, could this be the substance you're seeing?
Interesting thread indeed, see you soon? Fare well until then.
Mark

[Hungry Horse]

 I have observed two guns that definitely used some sort of backing material. One was a brass barreled pistol with a flared muzzle, and a silver buttcap. The buttcap was backed with some sort of resin type material, but I was not allowed a small sample to have examined. The other was a French musket assembled from a wide variety of french parts spanning several years, and models. The owner brought it to me to see if I could substantiate the claim by the fellow that sold it to him, that it was assembled in the U.S. for the American Revolution. The material that floated the buttplate tang, and barrel tang, was identified as a material called brewers pitch, that was used to seal beer, and ale barrels ( not alcohol soluble). as well as wooden canteens for the American rebels. No absolute confirmation of its American assembly, but at least it wasn't epoxy.

                        Hungry Horse