L&R flintlocks - Cosmetic differences OR substantive?

[Naphtali]

I modified the query because my first responder showed me I meant to identify the #1100 Durs Egg - the full-sized version - rather than #1700 Manton.
***
The two L&R Lock Company locks of this query are the #900/900DT Late English, and the #1100 Durs Egg. As near as I can determine, the "Late English" (900 series) lock emulates the final development of flintlock technology, circa 1830s, while the "Durs Egg" (1100) lock emulates a slightly earlier technology, circa 1815.

Obvious differences in detail are the "rain drain" and double throated cock (optional) on the #900/900DT. I suspect "under the hood," these locks are identical.

Are differences in the locks, regardless whether I've identified them, merely cosmetic, or is one lock design achieve superior reliability or durability or something else? If differences render one superior, which one - and why?

[bgf]

The first difference is size.  The 900 is good for 1 1/8" breech with touch hole centered on the barrel flat.  The 1700 is maybe usable for a 1", but it would possibly look too small.  Many call it a pistol lock.

Second, the period depicted different.  The Manton may be 1770 or so (England) in style, whereas the 900 is probably 1815 and later in England, perhaps up to '30 and '40's in the US.  The Manton is something post 1790's in US, but is build a bit fancier than most export locks would have been (e.g. the hidden screws on frizzen spring and pivot).  That same goes for the 900, though it is not as nice as a highend British domestic lock, but a lot nicer than many exported to US, also a bit larger.

The internals are similar in concept, but completely different parts.  The real "big brother" of the 1700 is the so-called "Durs Egg" (1100) -- style is very close between them, main difference is size.  I have a Durs Egg and a friend has a Manton (on a slim rifle) -- they are hard to tell apart, but one is much bigger.  Both of those work pretty well.

Functionally, the Manton is very fast due to small size and gets very favorable reviews.  The 900 gets more mixed reactions, though I'm sure any good lock tuner could make a screamer out of it also.  It is one of the locks I have my heart set on trying, just for the looks, even if it takes me a month to get it working the way I want.

Just as an aside, I think Bob Roller still makes a modified version of the Manton and/or Durs Egg.  If it fits your budget and those styles fit your build, you wouldn't have to worry about quality with one of his.

Also, you might want to look at the Chambers Late Ketland.  Stylistically it is somewhere between the Manton and the 900, and a little plainer.   One drawback is that there is no "exact fit" cap lock replacement for it (there are for the L&R's), which might or might not matter, and it has no left-hand version.

[Bob Roller]

 I use the externals of the small Manton,Durs Egg and the Ashmore from L&R.
They seem to work well and so far no complaints about function.
I also use Jim Chambers late Ketland if someone wants one with
my mechanism.  R.E.Davis's Twigg is a fine one also. This big lock
has real potential if a better mechanism is installed.
A small pistol size lock is a good idea on a rifle. Lynton McKenzie had a
Fenton target rifle with a pocket pistol flintlock mounted and with double set triggers
which are rare on an English rifle.The rifle was a 16 bore and Lynton said it went off like a center fire
and the tiny lock didn't disturb the heavy rifle on firing. I once had a set of castings for this little lock
and made it up with my own internal parts as the ones that came with it were worse than hopeless.
This was about 20 years ago.Lynton and Steve Alexander made up a rifle like this,lock and all for
a customer in California and that lock added a big sum to the finished piece which was an expensive gun
to start with.The opposite extreme is the Simon Kenton long rifle here in our Art Museum. It is a fairly
light rifle with a big military lock and was duplicated by Tom Dawson after I got the specs for him and he
said when that lock fired,the opening of the frizzen created a condition like that of pulling the trigger
on a heavy duty electric drill.

Bob Roller

[Naphtali]

I kindve messed up. Thanks you for showing me I meant to identify the #1100 Durs Egg lock. Is either lock satisfactory for 1.25-inch breeched barrels?

Mr. Roller and I corresponded on his making locks for me. Whatever his price might have been, it was satisfactory. But facets of my "wants" forced him to pass. . . . I wish it weren't so.

Regarding the #900, I have an extra right-handed lock. Perhaps we can work something out?

The first difference is size.  The 900 is good for 1 1/8" breech with touch hole centered on the barrel flat.  The 1700 is maybe usable for a 1", but it would possibly look too small.  Many call it a pistol lock.

Second, the period depicted different.  The Manton may be 1770 or so (England) in style, whereas the 900 is probably 1815 and later in England, perhaps up to '30 and '40's in the US.  The Manton is something post 1790's in US, but is build a bit fancier than most export locks would have been (e.g. the hidden screws on frizzen spring and pivot).  That same goes for the 900, though it is not as nice as a highend British domestic lock, but a lot nicer than many exported to US, also a bit larger.

The internals are similar in concept, but completely different parts.  The real "big brother" of the 1700 is the so-called "Durs Egg" (1100) -- style is very close between them, main difference is size.  I have a Durs Egg and a friend has a Manton (on a slim rifle) -- they are hard to tell apart, but one is much bigger.  Both of those work pretty well.

Functionally, the Manton is very fast due to small size and gets very favorable reviews.  The 900 gets more mixed reactions, though I'm sure any good lock tuner could make a screamer out of it also.  It is one of the locks I have my heart set on trying, just for the looks, even if it takes me a month to get it working the way I want.

Just as an aside, I think Bob Roller still makes a modified version of the Manton and/or Durs Egg.  If it fits your budget and those styles fit your build, you wouldn't have to worry about quality with one of his.

Also, you might want to look at the Chambers Late Ketland.  Stylistically it is somewhere between the Manton and the 900, and a little plainer.   One drawback is that there is no "exact fit" cap lock replacement for it (there are for the L&R's), which might or might not matter, and it has no left-hand version.

[Roger B]

I have a late English that was a real dog when I first received it.  Sent it to Brad Emig and it now is very impressive.  I highly recommend their service at Cabin Creek.
Roger B.