Low temp.silver solder

[DFHicks]

During the time I wasn't able to work on any projects, I heard about low temperature silver solder _ stronger than lead solder but worked with a propane torch.  So when I started up again I went to a welding supply store to buy some and the flux.  I have only tried it several times in the last year or so always ending in frustration.  My MAPP torch will make it bead up but not flow.  This last time I read the info on the wire and flux.  OK, I probably should have done that in the beginning.  However the counter guy seemed to know exactly what I wanted.
So in clear letters on the wire container are the words " SILVER BRAZING ALLOY".  The fine print on the back of the flux bottle says "White Brazing Flux".  It gives the "active temperature" as 800 - 1600 degrees F.  This is the silver solder that has been around for years and requires an acetylene torch.
Is there a solder available that's somewhere between lead and true silver solder? I "Googled" this but didn't have much luck.

Thanks  _  DF

[Dave Faletti]

Brownells Hi-Force 44 is a silver bearing solder that works good.  Its 4% silver with the rest tin.  Propane torch works fine on it.  Others have used lead free plumbing solder which I believe is the same ingredients but a lower percentage silver.

[Long Ears]

DFHicks, try this one. I tried 4 or 5 and this is now my favorite. Bob
www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1023/1/SOLDER-SB

[Acer Saccharum]

Metal to be joined has to be at a temp where the solder will flow, somewhere above the melting point of the solder.

The Flux has to be matched to the solder's melt point. If heated too much, the flux and metal oxidize, and solder will not flow, but bead up.

[smart dog]

Hi DF,
Brownell's Hi Force 44 is a good choice, however, you must use it carefully.  It requires very clean mating surfaces, and you heat it slowly and do not over heat.  On ferrous metal use a noncorrosive flux.  Another good low temp solder it TIX, which does not contain any silver but is a good silver color match.  TIX flows extremely easily but HI Force 44 is stronger.  I find it useful to have both solders if I am constructing something that requires several soldering episodes.  I can solder the main elements with Hi Force (flows at 460 degrees) and then the secondary elements with TIX (flows at 265) without worry about destroying the first solder joints.

dave

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I, too, have had very good results with the Brownell's solder.  Use it with the liquid flux they sell.  This stuff wicks quite readily into the solder joints.  It is easy to use with a propane torch.

A note of caution.  The Brownell's flux cleans the metal so well that you can get rusting on iron or steel where the flux was applied.  You get a perfect solder joint, then come back the next morning to a bright orange spot showing where you put the flux.  (Don't ask how I know this!)

Jim

[Rolf]

Get a better/bigger propane torch. I do a lot of high temp. silver soldering and I use only propane.
The tiggerguard in this tutorial was made with no.1 solder that contains 70% silver.
It flows at 690 Celsius =1274 Fahrenheit.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=22536.0

The size of the torch has to match the size/thickness of the parts solderd.In some types of silver filigree work, I solder sterling silver with coin silver, using a small jewelers propane torch.



Building a primitive "forge" around the part will increase the heating capacity of your torch. I have been able to forge weld small steel scraps in the primitive setup shown in the tutorial.

Best regards
Rolf

[FL-Flintlock]

When you go into a welding supply ans ask for "silver solder" you're going to get silver brazing alloy with a flow temp >1200*F. 

A few things to keep in mind about silver bearing soft solders, if you're going against brass, make sure you avoid any Sb content.  Common plumber's paste flux is rarely formulated to play well with other than copper-base alloys, get a good liquid flux with it's working temperature range compatible to the solder alloy being used.  Silver content is not necessary and most silver bearing solder alloys have a tensile strength that's 30-50% lower than high-strength non-Pb alloys.

[kutter]

I've used a lot of the Brownells  44 solder. I just use common No-Corrode paste soldering flux with it and it works fine. I've re-ribbed a lot of SxS  bbls with it for years that way.
One draw back is that the solder 'line' will stay bright white and not turn dark grey/black like common lead/tin solder will after a while.
One reason I've gone back to 60/40. Plus the slightly lower heat needed.

Go to the home improvement store plumbing section and look over the solder selection. A good portion of it is now 'lead free' (soft) solder. Different % alloys of tin and silver. You can probably buy what you want right there as well as 50/50 or 60/40 lead/tin.
It's all usable with a common propane torch. 300/400 range +/-



If you use any of the 'acid' flux like comet flux and the like, yes you will have after rust as they are chloride mixtures. Mainly zinc chloride and ammonium chloride (sal-ammoniac).
Some have hydrogen chloride in them. Great chemicals to brown bbls for you!
Stay out of the fumes....
 
No real acids,,just alot of chemicals in the Ph acidic range.
You have to neutralize them or the metal will keep on rusting.

A real problem w/ SxS bbls if someone puts them together with one of the acid flux mixtures. They'll keep rust inside,, and sometimes out.
Even touch up jobs using an acid flux which is commonly done 'cause the stuff works so @!*% well, causes problems with after rust.

I have a Win21 in here now that the customer found rusty looking moisture running out from under the forend.
The problem,,the forend lug was resoldered with and acid flux. The bbls then polished and went through re-rust bluing process.,,and still the acid flux remained and rusted that area.
It also gathers moisture from the air like a bad flashlight battery and it then dribbles out and over the area. It takes the blueing off as you can imagine.

[Eric Smith]

I recently began to learn to solder. I got some common lead free flux and solder from the local Lowes plumbing dept. and a propane torch. First day was somewaht frustrating. Tried to solder some 1/8 " thick scrap together. 2 succsesses out of about 12 tries. Went on youtube that night and watched some film on "How to Solder" search. Next day, two attempts, two sucsesses. I think what I learned was to kind of sneak up on it with the heat. Dont try to put the heat right on it. Heat a little on one side, the the other side, and let the heat meet in the middle. I don't know squat about soldering, But there is what little I do know, or think I know!   

[Hungry Horse]

I use Stay-Brite solder for mounting lug, and sights, on trade guns. Its melting temperature is in the five, to six, hundred degree range. It ten time stronger than regular solder. I've used it for years, and only had one sight come off, and even then the gun slid off a rack, and free fell to the ground, where it contacted the rock that knocked the sight off. All solders require a clean surface, the silver bearing ones particularly.

                      Hungry Horse

[DFHicks]

Thanks again to all.  I will certainly do a YouTube search. _ DF

[Eric Smith]

You would be surprised how much info is on YouTube. Learn almost anything!

[FL-Flintlock]

If the joint is done correctly, the solder will push all remnants of the flux out where it can be neutralized/washed off.  Use a good grease-busting detergent not soap to wash parts if using a water-soluble flux.

[docone]

I have found, backing the soldering with charcoal, or just plain wood while soldering helps even out the heat.
I do not know how much stronger low temp silver solder really is, compared to conventional solders.
What I do, especially when I am soldering an underrib, is to really tin and prepare the tinned joint prior to soldering.
I dress up the joint on both the piece to be joined, and the piece. After postioning, I start heating slowly so the flux does not burn. Then I add more solder. This flows into the joint, and it also pushes out any crud that got missed in preperation.
When doing an underrib, I put a wooden dowel into the bore. I do not know if it helps at all with firescale, but I thought it did.