RCA 18-25

[Mike New]

Gentlemen, I am finishing up (within a year or so) my current project and would like to start planning my next rifle. I have a .32 several .50s and am working on a .54. I am thinking about a larger caliber a .58 or .60. I like the profiles of the rifles listed in the RCA 18 through 24. They have larger calibers without the bulky look of a Jeager or Edward Marshall. My questions for the distinguished panel are: Where can I find more, better, clearer pictures?? Does this style of rifle lend itself to recoil with the larger calibers? What would be a suitable, PC lock for this style? What other style (Early Virginia?) would have the same traits? Large caliber, not bulky looking and easy to shoot without getting smacked in the face. Thanks in advance. Mike New 

[JDK]

Large caliber, not bulky looking and easy to shoot without getting smacked in the face.

In a word....BECK!!!

[rich pierce]

RCA 19 is one of my favorites and is very comfortable to shoot.  I think I remember that RCA 18 is the Schreit rifle, also very suitable for a large caliber rifle.  RCA 20-25 are inter-related and should be comfortable with large wide, flat buttplates.

Off the shelf suitable Germanic styled locks for the time period 1750's-1770 include Chambers Early Germanic, Davis Colonial American lock, Davis 1750's lock, and maybe there are others to consider.  Some very early locks are way too early to be suitable unless the idea is they are recycled for the build.  English locks to consider include the 2 Chambers round faced English locks, Chambers Early Ketland, or the Davis round faced English lock but that's pretty big.  PM or email me if you want my notes on building RCA 19-patterned rifle.

[rallen]

It's nice to see another fan of early Reading guns. RCA 20-22 are my 3 favorite rifles. That style barrel feels heavy and bulky by itself, but stocks up into a beautifully handling and sighting rifle. Personally, I would use Chamber's Dale Johnson lock or an altered large Siler to approximate the locks on many of those guns.  As far as I know, RCA 1 has the best photos of those guns.  Mel Hankla has nice color photos of RCA 21 which gives you a little different perspective from RCA - http://americanhistoricservices.com/html/home.html. 
Ryan

[Ryan McNabb]

Not Reading, but if you like "big early guns" like we all do, and need excellent photos, you should get a copy of the Moravian rifles book published by the Kentucky Rifle Foundation. 

[Mike New]

Thanks for the replies. I have the Moravian book and the early Readings appeal to me more. I don't care for the stepped wrist and wire inlet scares me to death.  I suppose its like red heads, brunettes or blonds we all have our favorites but sometimes we don't know why. I have plenty of time (I hope) and I wanted to start researching before I started buying parts. I really like some of the Becks too. Dr. Pierce PM sent. Thanks again, Mike N.

[Rootsy]

Speaking of these Reading guns, whose hardware is the most "correct" short of DIY?   I have been trying to decide what to put in the pipeline next and one of these looks like a new challenge for me.

[rallen]

Depends on the gun. There are some good options. I believe Dave Keck may have a guard and butt plate that are real close.  If you notice, the front spur of the guards on many of them bow out in the middle, in typical Reading fashion.  Reaves Goering is probably the best bet.  He has a small Haga pattern, a Bonewitz pattern, but for the earlier guns, his early Virginia guard and plate can be filed to the correct shape and the correct moldings applied.  The pipes need to be made since they can run 1 3/4", 1 7/8" or up to 2".
Ryan

[Rootsy]

Specifically RCA #22... Don't think I have ever seen a contemporary recreation of that particular rifle... Being vertically challenged (slightly) my ideal LOP is 12 3/4 - 13 inches putting me somewhere between #21 and #22.   Would most likely go with a 58 cal Rice D weight Reading profile barrel.  I enjoy #22 with the simple brass patch box.  #22 being stocked in cherry piques my interest also.

[rallen]

The Rice Reading profile is from measurements from RCA 21.  Just my opinion, but may be a little big for that gun with a short pull.  If Rice can get enough orders to justify a run, they are going to run the D 58 and a C 50.  Aside from a custom barrel, the C may work perfect. That rifle actually shoulders quite well with a 12 1/2" pull. An interesting detail to note, is that the brass box on RCA 22 is a replacement for a lost wooden box cover. Underneath the brass box are the dovetail rails for the wooden box cover. 
Ryan

[Stophel]

Probably my favorite types of rifles.  Reading guns are deceptive in photos, though. They are NOT just straightforward Lancaster guns but with rounded comb noses.  LOTS of shaping subtleties that make a Berks gun a Berks gun.  I hate to say that you have to handle one to see them, but it sure helps.  

Here's one I did a few years ago after getting to see "gun 21", and is still the gun I'm most proud of:





Ok, so I didn't make the horrible hollowed out cheekpiece that was on "gun 21", but others appear flatter, so I made mine flat... like they should be.  


The triggerguard I probably made from the "K5" guard, and the buttplate is the one usually sold as a Reading plate.. I think it was this one: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/669/1/BP-E-34-B

Think "bulbous" and "round"....  "Full figured", but they're not "fat".  Of the Berks guns I have been able to see, I noticed that the fore ends are rather fuller and rounder than on most guns.  The cheekpieces are often "pushed out from the inside" and not so sharply defined.

[Rootsy]

I think what grabs me the most is the shape of the lower fore-stock on these guns, particularly one view of #21 seen on the AHS website.   Developing a proper shape in this area and the area in front of the lock and side plates is what is most challenging to me at this point.  I probably spend the most time in this area and I like a lot of extra material to work with.  Purely inexperience and lack of knowledge.  Most photographic examples of most guns don't provide a good view of what the cross section actually is. 

Luckily I am JIT to make the Reading profile run @ Rice.   

[Mike New]

Gentlemen, Thanks again for all the information. Hopefully some day I can repay everyones generosity. This is the best site for builders and those that want to build. Mike S. New

[Dphariss]

Gentlemen, I am finishing up (within a year or so) my current project and would like to start planning my next rifle. I have a .32 several .50s and am working on a .54. I am thinking about a larger caliber a .58 or .60. I like the profiles of the rifles listed in the RCA 18 through 24. They have larger calibers without the bulky look of a Jeager or Edward Marshall. My questions for the distinguished panel are: Where can I find more, better, clearer pictures?? Does this style of rifle lend itself to recoil with the larger calibers? What would be a suitable, PC lock for this style? What other style (Early Virginia?) would have the same traits? Large caliber, not bulky looking and easy to shoot without getting smacked in the face. Thanks in advance. Mike New 

#18-19-22 should all be good for a heavy caliber rifle.
#48 the Dickert. I really like.
I made one but it weighs almost 18 pounds so recoil is not a factor.
It does not look too chunky for 17 pounds 12 ounces.

I have a much lighter version laid out on a stock blank but not started yet. I used the Chambers Dale Johnson on the completed one and have another for the next one.
Note that #48 has been shortened at the muzzle several inches. Better  color photos in "Moravian Gun Making of The American Revolution".

Recoil tolerance is best with a comb that runs close to the line of the bore and not too much drop at the heel from line of sights.

Dan

[Mike New]

 My copy of RCA 1 falls open at # 48 and RCA 2 at #131. I suppose one could make a career studying #48. I don't think I could ever pull off a copy (bench copy?)of a well known maker and make it correct. I imagined that it would be a scene from
"A Christmas Carol" with a visit from Herr Dickert (Xmas future) saying " Put down your tools you apple head and never tarnish my name again" LOL
 Dan, I don't see 17 lbs unless that is 4 inch wide hardwood. Which barrel profile and caliber did you use? Mike N.

[t.caster]

18 pounds! Is that a typo or an "over the log" rifle?

Here is a link to an RCA#48 I built years ago. I've done several of them.
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/dickertrifle.htm

[Dphariss]

18 pounds! Is that a typo or an "over the log" rifle?

Here is a link to an RCA#48 I built years ago. I've done several of them.
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/dickertrifle.htm

No typo it weighs 17 12 oz at the scale in the range house at Cody.

It has a  50 cal, 1 1/4" by 44" McLemore gain twist barrel and will shoot short strings if I do my part.
I have not shot it offhand but with the Schuetzen stance it can be held OK.
It was made as a match rile to counter the excessively plain rifles that are popular today for "chunk rifles". There are original brass mounted, engraved and carved FL rifles in this weight range.

I have not shot it over the chunk, we shoot "plank rest" matches.
Look for Cody Turkey matches in the shooting forum of this site for explanation of the match.

Dan

[Dphariss]

My copy of RCA 1 falls open at # 48 and RCA 2 at #131. I suppose one could make a career studying #48. I don't think I could ever pull off a copy (bench copy?)of a well known maker and make it correct. I imagined that it would be a scene from
"A Christmas Carol" with a visit from Herr Dickert (Xmas future) saying " Put down your tools you apple head and never tarnish my name again" LOL
 Dan, I don't see 17 lbs unless that is 4 inch wide hardwood. Which barrel profile and caliber did you use? Mike N.

This is certainly not a bench copy but its maintains the spirit pretty well.
Heavy rifles do not have to look like clubs. Its built with about the same clearances for web etc as would be found on a 8 pound rifle. It has a 3/16 web and 1/8" over the rod hole.


I laid it out to have the same bottom line from toe to entry pipe as the original then raised the wood starting about the tail of the lock  to allow for a 1/8" higher profile at the barrel breech maintaining a good flow in the wrist.
I used a Reaves Goehring #10 buttplate peaned  extensively to correct the contour and widen to about 2 1/4 after final filing.
A rifle like this would have been deadly over a stockade wall in the 1770s out to 250-300 yards.
Hmmm.  Makes one wonder if this is where the plank rest originated.  Would work very well for this.
Dan