How deep do you cut the mortises for pewter nosecaps?

[Rolf]

I want to pour chevron style pewter nose caps on the pistols I'm building.
I have read Ken's exelent tutorial on the subject. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4669.15

But have a couple of question.

1. How deep do you cut the mortises?

2 How thin is the wood at the bottom of the mortises?

3.How hot should I heat the bolt that goes down the barrel? I have a termostat controlled heat treating furnace I plan to use.

Best regards
Rolf

[Long Ears]

Rolf, If you can cut the mortises 1/8" deep then drill small holes to lock all of the runs in place. I drilled clear through the wood to the barrel channel and then flared the hole a little inside the barrel channel. The wood was quite thin as you can imagine. I put the barrel back into position and clamped it tight in the channel. Preheat the barrel with a red hot bolt 4" long or so. Somewhere I read to heat the pewter so you can dip a sharp tooth pick in it and remove it without scorching it. Poor fast! It worked great for me. I had a coupe of small voids I filled with a soldering gun and slivers of pewter.

[elk killer]

helps if you coat the cutouts with pencil lead before you pour
seems to help the metal flow better

[Old Ford2]

Elk Killer,
Please explain what you mean by coating the cut-outs with pencil lead.
Thank you
Fred

[Meteorman]

i've never measured the wood web, but i think i usually take it to where a cross secioin of the finished product would be about half wood and half pewter.  maybe a little less wood if anything.

this isn't chevroned, but gives some idea of the wood web I use.
first pic is before the top sides get tapered in.
2nd pic is with the tapers filed in (but before locking holes are drilled).
3rd pic: you didn't ask, but I've also tweaked Ken's excellent guide to include a paper towel tube as the primary form. 
Slotted and rolled to as near your final dimension as you dare, to minimize pewter removal later.
You do of course want to leave some buffer, and you certainly will with a cylinder like this.
I secured it with a hose clamp and some tape on the seam, but it seems - in my mind anyway - to lessen the chance for a blow-through leak.
you can see I also put a little "sealer gasket" of modeler's clay under the bolt head.
Hot pewter going down the bore gives me nightmares.

let us know how it goes.
/mike millard

[mattdog]

I'd like to make a suggestion here if I may.  I'll pick on Meteor Man's set up because what I have to say is obvious in his pictures.

He used a sealer to avoid having molten pewter go down the bore.  Not a bad idea, but.  If the dam (or mold if you want to call it that) were lower than the muzzle the pewter can't reach as high as the muzzle.  I try to figure how close to the muzzle I want the cap to be and then build my dam to only go that high.  As I'm pouring I don't have to worry about when to stop, the height of the dam controlls that for me.  Pour too much or too fast and the excess will simply overflow the dam.  I do, of course, plug the muzzle with a wooden dowell for just-in-case because we all know how "things" can happen when you least expect them. 

I try very hard to avoid leaks but at the same time I plan ahead to have one.  It's not a matter of IF, it's more like "what will happen when this leaks" that will keep you out of trouble.

[bama]

I like to use a bolt with a head about the same size as the barrel OD. I heat the barrel so it is hot to the touch before I place it into the stock. I have all my materials handy so it does not take to long to place the barrel, rap it, place my dams, etc. The barrel will cool a good bit before you get all this done but it will be warm enough to not act as so much of a heat sink for the hot bolt that goes into the muzzel. I have never had any metal go down the bore but so what it a little did, I have never had pewter stick to the metal. It would be easy enough to remove if it did.

As far as the groove depth and prep it is pretty much the same as everyone else.

Where I have had a problem with over run is the rear ramrod hole, please do not forget to plug this before you pour. Ask me how I know this. Believe me good hot pewter will run a long way down a ram rod hole in a short amount of time.

[Hungry Horse]

I plug the bore with a carriage bolt that has the square section under the round head ground off, and heated red hot to heat the barrel. Scrub the channels with a good soft carpenters pencil to encourage metal flow. I use pure tin if I can get it,( lead free solder is a good source, but expensive) and only heat it until it is liquid, never boil it. Good luck.

                     Hungry Horse

[deano]

The time I did it I cut a piece of wood the same size as the barrel and inserted the it in the barrel channel where I wanted the cap to be located. Which eliminated the heat sink effect of the steel in the barrel and the need to heat the barrel to keep the pewter flowing.

[elk killer]

just take some pencil lead and coat the wood, where ever your going to pour the metal,
in all the cuts, it just seems to make it flow easier, it seems it fills in all the mortices better,
just works for me

[Habu]

Don't forget to flux the pewter immediately before pouring; that and the pencil trick Elk Killer mentioned will really help cut down on the number of voids. 

[Don Tripp]

Flux the pewter? Do you use Marvelux for this?

[snowdragon]

I think it's more a question of how much wood should you leave,  rather than how deep should you cut.  If you look at Meteor Man's photos, you can see that he left a lot of wood to be removed after the pour was completed, so the "How deep" question is rather moot.  He also shows how much wood he left, which looks like a typical amount to me. 

So, make sure you leave extra wood before you pour.  You can pour if the profile is finished, but it's so much easier, and better, if you pour on fat wood, then trim down the wood and cap together,  to its finished dimension.  Good luck. Bill

[Hungry Horse]

I flux the pewter with a small pinch of bee's wax, and then stir it with a carpenters pencil that has had the wood cut back about an inch ( it attracts impurities). This is an old silversmiths trick that works with tin and lead free pewter.

                        Hungry Horse

[docone]

I use a tad of vegetable oil.
Makes it clean.
It shouldn' smoke at tin temps. It will smoke at lead temps.

[Habu]

Flux the pewter? Do you use Marvelux for this?

I tend to use pewter from a variety of salvage sources, so I'm never sure it is lead-free.  As a result, I cast a bit hotter than others might: closer to the 625 degree melting temp of lead than the 450 degree melting temp of tin.  I flux with a carefully-metered quantity of mixed hardwood and softwood dust (in other words, a pinch of sawdust from the outfeed chute of my bandsaw is sprinkled on the molten pewter).  I stir it in with a piece of scrapwood (usually a pine splinter) then rake off the dross with a spoon. 

[pake]

Habu, HH, docone;

I've made a few pewter nosecap pours, but would you elaborate for me please what adding the "carefully measured soft and hardwood dust" ( I love that one), beeswax (got hivesfull but haven't used it for this), or vegatable oil does? Is one contaminant attracting whatever else may be there for easier dross removal or what?

Thanks

pake

[Habu]

They all serve as a flux, just like a flux used when melting lead to cast balls or bullets.  They dissolve oxides in the metal, which makes it pour better (and reduces inclusions in the casting) and they prevent the formation of oxides at the surface.    Stirring the flux into the molten metal exposes more metal (and more oxides and contaminants) to the flux.  The dross that is removed is a mix of contaminants and non-reduced oxides--stuff that would contaminate the pour. 

Or at least that is my understanding, but metallurgy is not one of my strong points. 

[pake]

Thank You for the explanation. I'll give that a try sometime soon.

pake