Author Topic: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original  (Read 7278 times)

Offline Chuck Burrows

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1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« on: June 20, 2010, 12:27:41 AM »
For your perusal and discussion - I cleaned up the photos so the details could be better seen:




Quote
Emanating from a western Virginia estate with it’s companion Ezra Engle made percussion long-rifle,(see item 3522)we will let our photographs do most of the talking on this piece except to advise that the appealing old country hunting bag appears to have been hand made in the period from previously used leather. It is clearly completely original and of the period, remaining in solid condition with some period cotton ticking reinforcement of the leather strap. The bag retains it’s powder horn, once again, in nice untouched condition with no cracks, holes or other condition issues. A rarely surviving workinghunting bag from a time and place when the hunter had to produce to augment the family table.

source: http://pages.gunsightantiques.com/5052/PictPage/3923763855.html

The companion Ezra Engle rifle..........a bit later than some folks are interested in but all in all something worth discussion...
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 01:09:40 AM »
 Good stuff, Thanks for Posting.  Death To Tyrants is on the Va state seal is it on the horn or bag? I look forward to the comments on this one.

 Tim C. 

Offline Rick Sheets

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 07:07:40 PM »
Thanks one does not see a pouch and horn in untouched condition very often.
Chuck, if you don't mind:

I can't see from the photo, but is there a leather washer between the strap and the wood screw attachment to the horn?

Also, how early do you think the roller buckle was available?

Super posting thanks again,
Rick
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Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 09:01:10 PM »
You're welcome.....
Quote
Also, how early do you think the roller buckle was available?
They go back to at least Roman times and show up on various harness and other leather gear from then on. Roller buckles in quantity show up on at least two of the 1820-1830's Rocky Mtn Fur Trade lists.

Here's a couple of relic buckles excavated from a 1780's Shawnee village near Springfield, Ohio.

In this first pic the top right buckle and the center and right buckle on the lowest row appear to be roller buckles - the top right looks to still has it's roller while the other two the roller is missing - note how the cross bar is smaller in diameter - similar to the one on the pouch......



In this pic the buckle on the top row in the center is a roller buckle (it looks funny because the spoon above is butted up against it in the photo......




Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline G-Man

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 11:27:07 PM »
Really nice late longrifle era set - rifle, bag and horn - although it looks like they were split up as the bag has sold. 

A good bag and horn and a nice clean-looking mixed iron and brass rifle by a known maker, all in what appear to be good condition.  How often do you find that anymore, even if it is late period?  I would have thought keeping the set together would have enhanced the value of the rifle, which has not sold(?) according to the website.   

The spout treatment on the horn is wonderful and looks a bit earlier than the rest of the set, to me.  But old ways hung on late in these areas so it's hard to say.  Heck, the Tansels were still making elaborate engraved horns  right up to just prior to the apparent era of this set.

Complete sets are sort of the "Holy Grail" for some collectors, especially when there is good provenance and a signed rifle to boot.  I know folks who have gone to extreme measures to reunite original bag, horn and rifle sets just like this after they were separated at auction -  cris-crossing the country, paying two-three times what some of the individual items went for at the auction to get them back.    Too bad these got split up, but someone got what looks to be a great bag and horn.  Sometimes a buyer has only so much cash and you have to make choices.

Thanks for posting Chuck.   

Guy

Ky Ken

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 12:45:41 PM »
Chuck thanks for the info on the buckles, I was just looking for info for a bag Im doing.
          Ken

Offline G-Man

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 02:05:48 PM »
This is sort of straying from the thread, but the info on the buckles is very interesting.  I've seen the full writeup on that dig that was completed - these were from the Piqua Town along the Mad River (not the current city of Piqua, which had other villages). I believe that this well known Shawnee village was on that site beginning in the late 1760s or early 1770s,  and it was attacked and burned by Clark in 1780. The Shawnees attempted to return and resettle, but it was destroyed again by 1782.  Tecumseh lived here as a boy.   Later activity to current times was limited to a farm.  So there is pretty good control for the date range for the probable age of the buckles, mainly 1770s-80 timeframe.

Guy

Jefferson58

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 03:36:52 PM »
Nice-looking old pouch and horn. That flap shape is very interesting with the split at the tip. The horn is awesome too.

Thanks for sharing this set!

Jeff

BGC

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 07:23:56 AM »
Ezra Engle died in Tyler County, WV in 1869.  Plenty time for the roller buckle.
Madison Grant had a couple of Engle rifles with pouches in his pouch book.  Unfortunately, they too were separated from the rifles when Madison passed away. It's a rare thing to still find them together anymore.

RoaringBull

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Re: 1850's Virginia Horn and Pouch - original
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2016, 06:44:00 PM »
 ;D