At what point does she open up (group wise)

[Roger Fisher]

I'm thinkin this got your attention!!

Okay serious-  Would be interesting to most of us to hear your experience with how many shots (not years) have you had through your old rifle when you noticed your groups went to 'heck'?

I refer to a rifle using bp not make believe black.    I became suspicious lately and had to find out since I was blaming the rifle (a little) Took the old gal to the range fine day lite breeze set out the 8 ring black bull at 100 yds shot from bench (with shaders) with a white spotter on the 10 ring.  Shot a 48x I apologized to the ol gal stroked her a bit cleaned her up with care and she's ready to go again...   The one low 9 was me and I knew it soon as the trigger broke..

I had a lad tell me that at around 40,000 his rifle opened up.  What quality of care he used with his is not known. I use the super smooth stainless steel rod (Bevel Bros not withstanding!!) with nylon guide and on the short starter (yes I use one).. This old Getz barrel is now pushing 70,000 rounds since 89. (or maybe 88). Been using .454 ball and .017 patching (spit).

So, have any of you experienced your rifle opening up and at about what number of rounds..?

[hanshi]

I remember an article in The Gun Digest (still have the book) from years ago.  The author (a self proclaimed expert) stated uncategorically that an ML bore using black powder would lose it "accuracy life" after as few as 1000 rounds.  His thesis was that after 1000 rounds the bore would maintain hunting accuracy - whatever that is - for maybe a good bit after that; but it would be worn out long before more than a few thousand rounds passed through it.  Basically he lumped MLs in with high intensity smokeless rounds such as the hot Weatherby line, .220 Swift, etc.

Though I haven't fired over 1000 rounds through most of mine, I've yet to see any deterioration.

[Habu]

I had a Numrich barrel on one of my first rifles (might have been the first, I don't recall).  My first load was 80grains FFg/.017" patch/.490" ball.  Accuracy was decent-to-good (depending on how well I was shooting that day) for the first couple cases of powder.  After that, I had to increase patch thickness, and eventually ball diameter, to try to gain some additional accuracy. 

I heard through the grapevine that the guy who has it now is using approximately my original load, and taking a few deer with it every year. 

[Hungry Horse]

My old CVA Mountain Rifle went from a .490 ball and .015 ticking, to a .498 ball and .020 ticking in about ten thousand rounds. I learned later that most of the wear is at the muzzle, and shortening the barrel a couple of inches could help a lot.

                   Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Not quite in line with your thread, Roger, but deals with accuracy just the same. 

In the 70's I did an experiment with a .50 Bauska 38" twist, choked barrel and unprotected fiberglass rod - sold then as THE Unbreakable Ramrod. It was 3/8" in diameter.  I had to recrown quite regularly, every 200 to 225shots as the groups would more than double in size. I mostly shot this rifle at 100yards as it was a bullet rifle, shooting bullets from 370gr. to 450gr., both Lyman moulds. It was very accurate, as long as less than 125 shots have been through it.

After shortening a total of 2", & with the choke almost gone, shortened 1/4" at a time, the original accuracy would not return, I assume due to interior damage from the rod & possibly loss of the choke.  I threw the barrel & the fiberglass rod away and put on a round ball barrel and mostly used a hickory rod, thereafter.

[LH]

I just rebarrelled my regular offhand rifle last year and that barrel had about 30,000 to maybe close to 50,000 balls through it.  I use a nylon bore guide and stainless rod.  I put that barrel on in 1997 so I reckon thats pretty good life.  I started suspecting it about three years ago but just kept telling myself it was my imagination.  A series of bench sessions proved it.  It would still shoot into about 2" at 100 about 7 out of 10 shots,  but the fliers were stretching the groups out to 5 or 6".  New barrel will pile em up inside 3" with more than half the shots inside 1.5"  for as long as you want to shoot it.    I figure the number of shots is only half the wear on one since you run alot of patches through one without shooting it.  I made myself a new style bore guide that fits on the outside of the barrel instead of going into the bore and I went from a 1/4" ss rod to a 5/16" because its stiffer and I dont hear it tinkling against the inside as much.  I think the cleaning rod is what does the most damage.  Wish I could afford a hawkeye so I could look for wear inside.  BUt for the price of a new barrel,   I'll just change it out every once in awhile.   

[Daryl]

  I think the cleaning rod is what does the most damage. 

This is also the most common reason for 'wearing out' a modern barrel as well. Jointed rods and/or rods that flex inside the bore being the worst, along with lack of bore guides.

[hanshi]

Thank goodness for deep rifling.  I do have a .36 flinter and cringe when I hear the ss cleaning rod tap the sides of the bore.  My M1841 has shallow (.006" grooves) rifling and I try to be very careful loading and shooting it.  I pamper it by only shooting it occasionally.

[Daryl]

In the book, "Firearms of the American West 1803-1865", US army mention is made of ruining the bores with the steel rods on the rifles. This was exacerbated with the Delvinge and Tige rifles and with minnie rifles where the common method of loading was to 'throw' the rod onto the 'ball' 3 times to ensure it was on the powder and that the 'ball' was expanded to fit the rifling.
Today, we believe this compression of the powder has caused ignition on a very hot day in a hot barrel.