holding patchbox

[hortonstn]

when engraveing a patchbox not on rifle,how do you support it so it doesn't get bent
and hold it tight?
thanks
paul

[Acer Saccharum]

You can roughly shape a block of wood, and goob down a layer of hot melt glue. After engraving a little heat will release the patchbox. Wipe clean with denatured alcohol.

Some folks set their work in a bed on Bondo, which will also release with heat.

[B.Habermehl]

For smaller parts 5min. Epoxy forks well, release with heat from torch or soldering iron. I also use 5 min epoxy to hold side plates onto a piece of scrap while fileing bevels etc. BJH

[SuperCracker]

It's been my experience that epoxy will come loose from the part cleanly when heated while Ive had to clean up bits of hot glue left on the part.

[Dave B]

I have seen Bondo used to hold parts  securely to a block of wood, heating with the torch breaks the bond

[Jim Kibler]

There's also the plastic stuff that softens when heated.  Think it's called thermo lok or something like that.  Heat in the microwave, mold to shape with your hand and than push part in it.  I like to use it with a wood block as well.  I heat with a heat gun to release the part.

[davec2]

I use wood blocks and super glue to hold frizzens, flint cocks, lock plates, inlays, patch boxes...almost anything that can't be clamped easily between the graving block jaws.  Sticks right now and also releases with a little heat.  If the part needs more support, I use "cold cure" dental acrylic (same stuff used for repairing dentures and partials.)

[keweenaw]

I see there are a variety of ways to do this but what's important is that the work is well supported.  Mark
Silver learned from Linton McKenzie to take a block, spread some autobody Bondo on it and gently push the workpiece onto the surface of the Bondo.  Make sure the piece is well supported underneath but don't push it down so much that the Bondo comes up over the edges.  When you're done engraving heat the work with a heat gun a bit and you'll be able to pop it right our by putting something under the edge.  Nothing to clean off, no glue to remove when you're done. And no, you don't need to use a release agent, wax or anything else on the back of the piece.   I was in Mark's shop yesterday.  He's engraving the patchbox for my current project - the 2013 NMLRA Gunmaker's Hall raffle rifle which I bedded in Bondo this way for him to engrave.

Tom

[KLMoors]

I use a block of wood and double sided carpet tape for anything that is flat.

I use the thermo lock that jim was talking about for the odd shaped parts like patchboxes.
It is good stuff, and you can use it over and over again. I have a block of wood with a "puddle" of it on there and I have used it a ton of times. Warm it up and it gets soft again.

Here is a link if you're interested:

http://www.grstools.com/workholding/thermo-loc/thermo-loc-sticks.html

[Waksupi]

I have a section of channel iron about 8" long. End caps welded on, then filled about 3/4 with pine pitch. Melt the pitch surface with a torch, set in piece, and let harden. Reverse process for removal.

[clockman]

Paul,  I've found that using bondo on top of a one inch board works well.  One important thing to note is to use some type of release agent on the back of your patch box.  That way the bondo sets up to form a perfect mold for your patch box without sticking to it. I use a light grease. Be sure to use it generously around the hinge, any piercings and all edges. I use some temporary screws to hold things in place while engraving.   Have fun!

[keweenaw]

I'll disagree about the need for a release agent when using Bondo, I just pulled the pieces last evening from the engraving Mark Silver did for me.  Just ran the heat gun evenly on the pieces until the bondo started to soften and easily popped them with a chisel inserted under the edge.  Not even the narrow points on a silver inlay deflected in removing them.

Tom

[Paul Griffith]

+1 on the bondo. No release agent, hit with heat gun.

[Jim Kibler]

I've found that it will sometimes stick a little.  Sometimes not.  Just a smear of WD-40 or light oil seems to have solved the occasional sticking problem for me. 

[hortonstn]

thank you all for all this info, i really appreciate it
paul

[peterm1_rifle]

A good way to temporarily but firmly hold a flat metal piece on a backing piece of wood is to use a piece of paper in between. The paper is glued to the wood and the metal (in this case a patchbox) is glued to the paper. This gives a very firm grip but when time comes to detach its easy to do by soaking the items somewhat (e.g. warm soapy water works if the glue is water soluble) thereby dissolving the paper / glue. I use the same method (using white glue) to temporarily bond two pieces of wood together for working.) In the latrer case removal is usually effected by sliding a thin sharp knife between the pieces of wood, splitting the paper. it occurs to me that this technique would work well for anything that cannot be heated as a means of detaching so long as its more or less water resistant.

[JDK]

Yes, an old wood turner's trick.  Good tip!  Enjoy, J.D.

[docone]

I would imagine, small screws into a piece of wood that can be held in your vice.
The screws would be smaller than the ones to be used, so any engraving could be done tight to the countersink.
This way, it could be removed, and replaced without issue.
At least that is what I have done on holding small pieces.
I have tried everything. Epoxy to a T plate, holding with the jaws itself, using layers of protective material.
The wood backing with small screws works best where it can be used. The engraving process itself does not jar the work that much, but, it does need to be stationary.
I have tried pitch. The denatured alcohol and resulting polishing minimized my graved surfaces. I have tried shot pads with some success. I keep moving with the piece, but it can be set directly back. I once made a table with an engraving vise that I could rotate with my foot. I could change angle, and rotate it. However, my Victor ball, with no stop has less resistance to turning than anything else, yet, it does work great.
You gotta figuire out what is needed for each piece. Pieces where you continue the engraving from the side pieces to the inner patch lid, you gotta fix it so you can continue the lines.
I am still working out bugs on all of this.
Sometimes I even make something I like.
Sometimes.