Author Topic: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)  (Read 10461 times)

Pitmar

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Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« on: August 29, 2012, 08:44:37 PM »
I joined this forum to ask the experts... I have a rifle that has been handed down (supposedly from my 3G grandfather) Thomas Bennett of Chester County SC... Yes I have seen the posts by AuntLouisa, she is my cousin.  The rifle in question has been handed down ... supposedly made by Thomas Bennett... I do not have detailed photos of the nuances... but have found on the octagon barrel the name "Henry" thus my concern with the story it being made by my 3G grandfather...  I have of late found Thomas Bennett's personal rifle in the Chester County SC Museum... it has 16 silver inlays.. including Patchbox estuceon as well as door..I have examined Thomas' rifle in the museum and his barrel is signed T Bennett, the silver was inlaid by Jordan Bennett, Thomas' brother... who I learned was also a dentist as well as a silversmith..He also was the first intendant of Chester County which is to say the first Mayor.
Back to the rifle... it is a long kentucky style with Octagon barrel.. it has no inlays... has brass butt plate.. and brass fittings about the barrel and underlying stock...
The lockplate about the firing mechanism has a duck hunter with birds on wing... cattails etc.. It is
devoid of any other markings except the P.S.J and Co. Warranteed...

I hope to be able to post a photo of it when I figure out how to accomplish this...

Thanks in advance for any and all information..

Kenneth





« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 04:18:39 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 10:55:45 PM »
Kenneth,

Click on this link and it will take you tour tutorial on how to place pictures on the forum.  If that is a proble, you can email them to me at


http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 04:19:46 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 10:57:42 PM »
Photos would be a big help. See this tutorial for help in posting photos:http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Dennis
update, I see Dr Tim beat me to it!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:58:40 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 04:16:00 AM »
Here are Kenneth's photos





De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 01:46:24 PM »
Elegant,simple styling using fine profile and devoid of distracting
inlays.It looks like a Northern rifle to me and a professional maker.
Is it marked any place?Marked or not,it is a fine piece.

Bob Roller

Offline Chris Treichel

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Offline Chris Treichel

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 03:33:35 PM »
If its only marked Henry on the barrel its probably an older one... later they marked them J. Henry.  Large caliber for settlers moving west.  Small calibers for the government contract to supply resettled Indians.

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 03:42:30 PM »
The "J Henry and Son" rifle (pictured in the NRA museum) wouldn't have been made in Philadelphia, despite what the text there says (note that the title of the entry says, correctly, "Boulton").

Joseph Henry had left Philadelphia to assume full proprietorship of the Boulton Gun Works in Northampton County by 1822. But the "J. Henry" on the NRA gun isn't Joseph Henry at all: it refers to James Henry (1809–95), who by the 1850s was joined at the Boulton works by his son, Granville Henry (1832–1912).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 03:46:52 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline Don Stith

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 06:38:34 PM »
Would it be possible to see a close up photo of the lock, nose cap and breech tang?
 I have seen a number of PS Justice rifles that were similar

Pitmar

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 07:19:29 PM »
I will have to travel to my parents to take more photos... but I do intend to take more detailed photos of
it at any rate... please be patient with me... I only wish I had taken closeups back in 2010 it has been
lovingly kept stored underlock and key for nearly all of my life.. and even before.. as I am 47!
My mother shot it as a young girl.. it was laid across the hood of a car.. she was fearless
and shot it with steel intent as told by her father... it kicked the snot out of her..
and she never wanted to repeat the proceedure.
Thank you all for your interest and helpful knowledge.. we will decipher this mystery with
your assistance..

Thanks and happy Hunting

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2012, 07:54:57 PM »
The name "Henry" on the barrel could represent the barrel maker, not necessarily the gunmaker who stocked the gun. Usually the gunmaker would place his name on the top flat, about midway between the breech and the rear site. Barrel makers often placed there name on other flats, hidden from view when the barrel was in the stock. Also it could have been a recycled barrel.
Hurricane
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 07:57:12 PM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

Pitmar

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2012, 08:20:48 PM »
This has long been my concern.. My Great Grandmother passed this to my Mom... with the story that it was made by her Grandfather Thomas Bennett... I have seen examples of Thomas Bennett's work all are signed examples with T.Bennett.. they all had patchboxes and silver inlays to some extent... except of course the pistol that still survives... it is a "Boot-Leg"  (shape not referring to contraband) pistol... 50 cal... with a 4.5 inch barrel.. I have been told it was a "Cane" gun... or to better describe it a "Walking Stick" gun.. The Boot-leg pistol is also signed... but has no silver inlays..
With the rifle in question.. not having his signature.. I have always been skeptical.. not of the provenance but of his having made this rifle..
This gives me hope that the barrel may have been a replacement... but this gun seems to be in too good a shape to have been reworked...
I just feel that it is in origonal condition...it is of course missing the ramrod.. I would have to search for a complementing replacement at some stage of the game...
Thanks for your posts... and keep um coming...

Pitmar

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2012, 08:42:28 PM »
This is all speculation at this point for there is none for whom to vouch of its validity...
This note from 1961 tells of My Great Great Grandmother Martha Louisa Bennett Sanders
sister Elizabeth Bennett Castles.. who was the oldest child..born in 1839 and died in 1927
Her Son William Thomas Castles recants the story of Elizabeth helping her father
Thomas Bennett at the Forge when he constructed Rifle Barrels...
This Scrap of paper was found within the pages of a book this woman purchased... she
had the foresight to include it on the internet in hopes it would be found by family..


Tom Bennett
Chester, S.C.

Three Generations of Riflemakers

The following was related to me by Mr. W. T. (Tom Castles of Chester, S.C.) in June 1961. TOM CASTLES was 92 years old at the time, with a good sharp mind.
Tom Castles’ mother was the sister of the third Tom Bennett, and the daughter of the second Tom Bennett. As a child, she helped her father, the second Tom Bennett, to weld rifle barrels in his forge, by holding them for him. She also told her son, Tom Castles, how her father straightened rifle barrels. He did this by pulling a silk thread through the barrels. By sighting through the barrel, with the tread pulled tight, he would straighten the barrel; in the conventional manner of that day.
According to the family history, the first Tom Bennett came to Chester, S.C. from Pennsylvania as a riflemaker. The second Tom Bennett made rifles and died in January 1861, just before the Civil War started. The third Tom Bennett died in 1924 at an old age.
Mr. Castles had two signed guns made by the second Tom Bennett. One is a full stock C&B rifle with oval patch box, 41 cal. with a 44” barrel. This rifle has 16 silver inlays with quality workmanship throughout. It is of first class work.
The second gun which Mr. Castles had was a ”Boot leg” pistol, signed T. Bennett. It had a 4-1/2” barrel, 50 cal.
The T. Bennett rifles I have seen are of first class work, and the inlays are of a very good quality, well inletted, as well as nicely engraved.

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 09:31:59 PM »
An absolutely fabulous piece of Kentucky rifle history. We would like to add it to the Library and hope you can get permission and a picture of the silver inlayed a/o other Bennett rifles for us as well.
Hurricane

Pitmar

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 10:39:03 PM »
I doubt that the Museum would give permission for photos to be taken... but you can go out to this
site and see Mr. Castles with the pistol and the rifle.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Along_the_Catawba_River.html?id=TUKcIvs5y_8C
it is on page 20..

Andy A

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 05:51:12 AM »
All,
The pictures of this gun suprised me, as it is almost a direct copy of my little Deringer rifle that I've had as a kid!

I will send pix as soon as I can figure out how to do pictures. My rifle is marked Deringer, Philadel on the barrel and the lock.

Andy

Pitmar

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 08:33:50 AM »
I took new photos today of this Rifle in question.... and once again I failed to take photos of the Tang ... I guess I am really showing my age... CRS is prevalent ...

I did get some detailed photos though.... especially of the signature .. which is definitely "Henry"

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1319.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1318.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1317.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1316.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1315.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1314.jpg

 
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1313.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1312.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1311.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1309.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1308.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1307.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1305.jpg


http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1304.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1303.jpg


http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1302.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1298.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1297.jpg


http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1296.jpg

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1294.jpg




http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o796/pitmar/IMG_1293.jpg 


 I hope I remembered how to attach these photos or link to this album...

Thanks,

Ken
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 08:54:47 AM by Pitmar »

docone

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Re: Family Heirloom (South Carolina Origin?)
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 03:44:47 PM »
That is the first time I have seen a blind riveted underrib on an original rifle.
Made my day!
Good photos, great rifle.
Answered some questions there.