Ramrod hole \swamped barrel

[hawken12]

Hello all. New to this site ,just been reading.What a wealth of information here .I have a question what distance from the barrel channel governs the ramrod hole on a swamped barrel design?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A ramrod hole is difficult to make straight, and end up when you want it, let alone making it curve to conform with the increasing thickness of the barrel at the breech.  I start by making my rod channel in the forearm with a web thickness at the muzzle no more than 3/16".  And I aim for a web at the breech end of the barrel, inside the rod hole, of only 1/8" to 5/32".  I want only enough wood there so that the for'd lock nail will pass, and I'm not above notching the bottom flat of the barrel to accommodate it.  My goal is to have the vertical height at the breech as small as possible, to create the slim beauty that I like so much.  Nut that's just my own approach and opinion.  Others will have different philosophies.

[Don Getz]

Taylor.......I like your dimensions for the ramrod hole.   I think I have finally convinced my stock carver/barrel inletter to
keep the hole about 1/8" from the barrel at the breech end.   When the web gets too big at the breech, you just can't
build a nice, trim gun...........Don

[Jim Kibler]

For me it's not so much the height of the stock at the breech, but rather the forestock that matters.  I often purposefully make the stock height at the back of the barrel taller than is necessarily dictated by the ramrod hole.  I have been making my ramrod grooves and holes generally follow the barrel profile so I'm able to get a very slim forestock, though.  This process allows the forestock to be thin and have a nice taper if desired as the entry pipe is aproached.  For barrels with significant swamp or profile, the benefits of this process become even more evident. 

[Jerry V Lape]

Jim, not sure I understand your "follow the barrel profile" instruction.  Are you  making the bottom line of the stock (and the top of the ramrod groove parallel to the bottom of the barrel throughout the forestock length?   So the stock bottom line has a curve just like the barrel? Could you post a photo of a rifle with this treatment?  What do you do with the top line of the forestock?  Keep it straight or follow the the barrels top contour ?   

[Mark Elliott]

I follow the advice that Allen Martin gave me about web thckness   Start out at 5/32" at the muzzle and cut/drill straight back.   If you keep the drill from wandering, which is almost impossible,  you end up at about 1/8" at the breech.    As to lock nail position,   I almost always cut up into the barrel to make sure I stay out of the ramrod hole.   Sometimes,  like on my last rifle,  it was so slim,  I ended up notching the barrel and still went in the ramrod hole.  In which case, I also notched the lock nail.   

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I like them slender so I have been having the rr hole drilled 5/16"  and using the 1/8" web at the breech and 5/32" at the muzzle.
Tapered rods or 5/16th straight rods for some guns help the slender look.

[Jim Kibler]

Jerry,

What I'm basically saying is that the web is more or less uniform thickness along the bottom of the barrel.  The groove and hole generally follows the barrel contour.  As I said, this becomes more critical as the amount of taper on the barrel increases.  On a fowling piece with a large breech, as is common on some English examples, it is a necessity unless you want the forestock to be huge.  This is how original fowling pieces I've studied were built.  On a rifle barrel with considerable swamp, it makes a big difference as well.  The "woodsrunner rifle" barrel is a good example.  If these measures aren't taken, the stock becomes taller, in the middle sections of the forestock.  When doing a rod groove and hole like this I've been using about 1/8" web along the length of the barrel.  As I mentioned, I think this method is pretty typical on English and European examples to deal with big breeches.  In talking with Wallace, he mentioned the fact that many longrifles he's examined have a uniform web thickness along the ramrod groove as well.

[Mark Elliott]

Jim,

You have me a little confused also.   I generally taper my stocks from the breech to the muzzle roughly following the contour of the barrel, but my ramrod grooves are planed so that they are straight from the muzzle to the ramrod entry hole.   That does result in some variation in thickness of the web from the muzzle to the breech.  It isn't much, perhaps less than 1/32" in the best case.    Are well talking about the same thing?

Mark

[rich pierce]

Can't speak for Jim but after drilling one could curve the RR groove upwards toward the barrel in the forestock where the waist of the barrel is smallest.  I've heard tell of folks also bending the forestock with the RR groove as they drill the hole. Not sure if there was some leg pulling going on there or not.   

[flehto]

Formerly did the bbl and RR work, but now send it to Dave Rase w/ instructions for a 3/32" web  or slightly less at the breech and 5/32" web at the muzzle.....and that's what he so expertly does. The 3/32" web at the breech poses some problems asre the front lock bolt and also the bbl lug but it all comes out in the end. ....a very slim LR....Fred

[Jim Kibler]

Here's a simple way to look at it...   Take for example the "Woodsrunner" barrel profile:  1.1" breech, .860" muzzle, .760 waist.  If I lay a Starrett straight edge along the profile, touching at the breech and muzzle, there is a gap of around .080" at the waist.  So, by making the ramrod groove and hole follow the barrel profile and NOT making it a straight line, allows the forestock to be around .080 shorter at the locations along the barrel where the diameter is .760".  Make sense?  So almost 3/32" inch is gained.  In practice I like this method because it allows the height at the entry pipe to be decreased to a minimum.  This allows the lower forstock to be tapered to a pleasing profile.  Yes, I've been bowing the stock a touch while drilling to prevent the hole from entering the barrel channel.  Knock on wood, all I've done this way have worked out well, with the drill coming out such that there was 1/8" - 5/32" wood at the breech.