"In the White"

[kawaker900]

A friend and I were discussing what "In the White" meant to us. 

I'm looking for opinions, your definition of "In the White" from a customer point of view or beginner/novice builder, to the expert/master and the "industry standard".

I'm leaving the topic vague as not to sway any answers. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Ben

[James Rogers]

For my own purposes and use...a completely built gun with all metal and wood to the point ready for carving, coloring and finish.

As far as guns being sold in the white...mostly what I have seen are guns that have all their parts put together with no metal finish work except the bare minimum to get the parts inletted. The lock still usually retaining its casting surface. The wood has been taken to shape but could stand a little more weight loss and then needs to be taken to a point to where it can be stained/finished, etc.

[Acer Saccharum]

In the white to me is really like a basic clean slate to start with, that the purchaser can decorate and finish to their specs.

A plain gun, unfinished. No carving, no inlays. A patchbox, I'd expect, would be an option.  And as James said, extra wood.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

To me "In the White" means a built rifle with barrel, lock, trigger, TG, butt plate, rr Pipes, Nose cap, Sights, and touch hole or liner Optional. All the stuff that makes it a functional rifle. Shaped and sanded with some extra wood to allow for finish shaping and sanding. All the major fitting and finishing is done to the point that it could be stained if a person wanted. But someone with experience would choose to work the stock much more, refining the line and adding embellishments before going to final finish.

[mattdog]

When we ship a gun "in the white" the customer can (and sometimes do) take it out of the box, load and shoot it.  Final finishing is up to them.  To their benifit they have a solid built and SAFE gun that they have a hand in producing.  The guys don't like doing them because after all the real work and sweat they don't get to see the finished product and the fear that some lumox will turn into a polyurethane coated mess. 

[Bentflint]

Every now and then people will ask me for a rifle "in the white" and the price of said gun. Some even ask for engraving and carving "in the white". Most of the time they also ask "how do I get the finish to look the way I do"? I tell them the color and oil part is free, I do not charge for the finish. There for, the price remains the same. I guess you say all my are sold "in the white".

The finish work is just a service I offer (as a thank you) to people that trust me to build them a gun.

Some times it pays to be a nice guy.

[Steve-In]

It is what the builder says it is.  E-mail is cheap. Phone calls cost a little more.  Investigate what is considered as in-the-white before purchasing, in writing if possible.  There are no standards on terms.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Over the years, I can remember only two rifles that went out 'in the white'.  They were completely finished except for final sanding, staining, and finish.  There was no more wood to remove.  Still, I did not sign them both.  I signed the first one, and I was proud to do so.  But I saw the rifle a few years later, and regretted seeing my name on such a piece of shite.  The owner had done some customizing, and finished it badly, and yet my name was still there as bold and proud as ever.  Scarey situation.  I don't do 'in the white' anymore.

[Bentflint]

I'm with you Taylor. I will put my touch mark on the bottom of a barrel I contour but, unless I finish the gun I will not put it where you can see it.

[Long John]

No one in her/his right mind would offer to pay me to build them a gun. 

But.....if some one asked me to build an "in the white" gun I would get it completely assembled, ready to shoot and no more wood on it than necesssary to allow proper carving.  The barrel and metal parts would be finish-filed but not smoothed down with abrasive papers. I would make sure that all the parts were properly let-in, no gaps, no parts proud of the wood, no hairy rasp marks, and the lock/trigger properly working to my standards.

But no one in his/her right mind would.....

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Acer Saccharum]

John, would you please build me a gun? In the Bucks County fashion?

[Rick G.]

I just received a parts set rifle put together "in the white" by a well known builder. It was ready to shoot out of the box, but needed minor cosmetic finishing ( removal of light sandpaper lines, a little sanding here and there) to get it ready for staining and finishing. I am very happy with it, and seeing how it went together helps me immensely with the kit I am building now. Having the building books helps ( I have Dixons book and The gunsmith of Grenville County) but for me at least, having one in my hand to examine gives me piece of mind.

[WadePatton]

John, would you please build me a gun? In the Bucks County fashion?

John's point is made.  


Mr Curtis always has several ITW guns in his racks.  I've not really looked at them though, too busy picking out parts when i'm over there.  I'm sure he'll tell you exactly what you'd be getting from him-that is the safest route, zero assumptions.  I have noted that the price difference is quite minimal.  I know they are ready to shoot, but couldn't advise as to how much more prep would be needed in the finishing process per a workmanlike manner.

[kawaker900]

No one in her/his right mind would offer to pay me to build them a gun. 

I guess I'm out of my mind John! 

Thanks to all for your opinion and thoughts. My conclusion, "In the White", is different for everyone.

Ben

[Hungry Horse]

 My in the white story goes like this. Many years ago I had a small muzzleloading business I ran out of my home. I took my set up to the local rendezvous, and shoots, and sold guns, tents, tinware, you name it. I sold several trade guns made by North star ( when Curly was still alive, not, North star west), and at least a couple of them were in the white. Years later I was asked by one of my customers widows to liquidate his muzzleloading collection. One of the guns in that collection was the .20 gauge trade gun I had sold him. It was still in the white, even though it had been shot quite a bit. He contended that some trade guns were sold that way, and the finish we see today is the result of long term handling, and oiling. I tried to continue his experiment, but couldn't stand it after a while, and finished the metal and wood. 

                Hungry Horse

[mattdog]

"He contended that some trade guns were sold that way, and the finish we see today is the result of long term handling, and oiling"

That is the excuse of the terminally lazy.

Also, "the side plate was surface mounted on them"  Bah!  I have seen exactly ONE in my years of studying trade guns.  It was cheapo Belgian made one. 

I see an occasional gun ITW being shot at events.  The owners always have an excuse why they never seem to get around to finishing it.   

[B.Habermehl]

I have done exactly one in the white project, one of the Getz Lancaster part sets. I put it all together, rough filed and did some scrapeing, leaveing a decent bit of finessing for the owner to enjoy. I saw it some time later at Dixon's, sanded, finished and browned in a workmanlike manner. With all the finess work not done....  Boy I'm glad I didn't sign the gun.  BJH