Need ideas

[gunnut41]

OK lets see if I can do this without making anyone upset.
I am a BPCR and smokeless shooter.
I would like to build a caplock to start ( to get experience and then a flintlock.
I have looked at several kits but always find something that I dislike with each so my idea is to try and scratch build one.

I have on hand an old Meridan open hammer SXS shotgun that has locks that seem like they would work.
I have on hand a barrel taken from a 43 caliber Mauser that was either never chambered or chambered in 410 shotgun, ( a 410 ,3 inch shell fits ).
the idea is to tap the chamber area for a breech plug and have a threaded adapter to fit the original barrel threads that I can tig a tang on to.
The touch hole doesn't bother me but a part (I'm sure it has a name) to hold the nipple excapes me.
The stock work I am able to do as I build stocks for BP cartridge rifles now but making one for a caplock will be a new experience

I guess what I need is someones input as to wheather I am barking up the wrong tree, going in a reasonable direction or should I forget the whole thing and buy a kit and go from there?

input and advice appreciated , pro or con


gunnut41

[rich pierce]

Hi and welcome.  Safety first, so I'll point out some potential areas of concern.  Unless you're handy with a lathe, breeching that old barrel will be challenging and this is THE area where safety is paramount.  Using a drum and nipple is considered acceptable but the weakest way to go in a percussion gun, and unless the lock fully supports the drum, the hammer blows over-stress the drum threads leading to failure, which can be catastrophic.  It's further challenging to correctly fit a drum on a round barrel- you'll have to mill/file a flat for it to shoulder up against.

Though you will get some advice on this board, the folks here are generally focused more on historically inspired longrifles of the flintlock era and less on bare bones "make-do" projects.  There's no right or wrong, but there are preferences in hobbies, and like minded folks often gather together on forums.  Consequently you probably won't find much in the archives about projects like the one you're starting.  The Backwoodsman magazine often has articles about self-reliant, make-do projects like yours.

[Acer Saccharum]

gunnut, I'd really like to see you start with a safe barrel and plug combo, just so I don't have to read about you in the obits.

Also, I've had a lot fewer ignition problems with flint than I have with percussion. It's a much simpler system, fire has a direct connection to the powder. Sometimes with drums and nipples, the durn things get so choked up with fouling, you have to take it all apart to clean it.

(This site favors flint by a large margin, in my opinion.)

Also on this site, opinion runs rampant, and is sometimes cleverly disguised as fact. 

[Trkdriver99]

Instead of a kit, just buy parts and have at that way you can do how you want it to look. I don't build them, but I love them.

Ronnie

[Acer Saccharum]

Also, if you had a certain style in mind, this community can be very helpful with suggestions.

[T*O*F]

To further add to your woes, Unless your barrel is a smoothbore, it has a bullet twist, not a roundball twist.  Bullet guns and nipple/drum combos are not compatible.  It'll blow.  They require a properly designed breechplug with a snail.  Even some of the commercially available ones are iffy, and modifying one of them to fit your skinny barrel would probably further weaken it.

Also, your locks probably have rebounding hammers which are not suitable for this use.  They can be modified with some difficulty.

Guns are engineered for their end purpose.  Mixing components can be a recipe for disaster.

[gunnut41]

Thanks for the info.
Like I said I have never attempted a percussion or flintlock so the advice is good.
Since I am still intrigued with building one and need to start somewhere what kit would recommend for a rank beginner?
And of most importance what caliber


gunnut41

[rich pierce]

For a rank beginner a Lyman Great Plains rifle kit will give you some fitting and finishing experience, which is usually enough to bite off for a first project.

[Dan'l 1946]

    Much of what you ask is dependent on what the gun will be used for. Are you planning to hunt with it or use it for target work? If you will be hunting with it, you will have to comply with state laws regarding caliber.  Are you going to hunt deer or birds? If you plan to hunt both, a fowler makes a good "all-arounder". A good flintlock is reliable and in my experience easier to keep shooting and to clean.
    A high quality parts set is the way to go. It will cost a bit more initially, but will be worth it in the long run. Long after you've forgotten the price, the gun will still be doing its job. You might check out Jim Chamber's web-site to get an idea of what is available in quality parts sets.
    
   Rich has given you some good advice. The Lyman is a kit gun, basically requiring only some finishing work to complete. You can alter the stock to some degree to personalize it, and you can learn a lot from the assembly process. Worth some thought.
                                                                         Dan

[Don Getz]

 I think that you will be wasting your time to build a gun with those components.   Looks like you are approaching this gun
 build in the most economic manner.  By using a modern barrel is a big waste of time, the end result will show this.  If you
want to go the most economical way, purchase a straight barrel in 45 or 50 calibre.  I would then purchase a stock that
has the proper size barrel inlet, the ramrod groove and hole, with the butt portion shaped to the type of gun you want to
build.   This will require looking at some books to determine what type of gun to build.  After you have made this selection,
run your ideas past us again and we will give you a yea or nay, and our reasons.    I would also strongly recommend a
flintlock, you wil find it easier to build and shoot.........Don

[Larry Luck]

Don is right on with his advice.

If economy is your objective, buy the best lock you can afford and a good quality barrel.  The straight barrels are less expensive than the tapered and flared/swamped variety and easier to adjust in the barrel channel of a precarved stock.  Conventional wisdom (and valid) is generally not to invest in a highly figured stock for number 1 as you may not be satisfied with the final product (particularly a few years hence) and straight grained maple is easier to work.  Soft maple is harder to work than straight grained hard maple, but keep your tools sharp.

There are a number of suppliers that can provide you the components, once you decide what you want.

A rifle with the architecture consistent with nany of the Lancaster school makes a comfortable and useful gun.  .45 cal. in 13/16 or .50 cal. in 7/8 would be my preference, but a .54 in a C-weight 38" tapered and flared makes a fine handling rifle.

I found it helpful to practice on pieces of scrap or to make a couple prototypes before doing the actual work on the project gun. 

My perspective is from a person who has completed two rifles and has two in the works, so weigh it accordingly.

Good luck,

Larry Luck

[Mike H]

gunnut, I'd really like to see you start with a safe barrel and plug combo, just so I don't have to read about you in the obits.

Also, I've had a lot fewer ignition problems with flint than I have with percussion. It's a much simpler system, fire has a direct connection to the powder. Sometimes with drums and nipples, the durn things get so choked up with fouling, you have to take it all apart to clean it.

(This site favors flint by a large margin, in my opinion.)

Also on this site, opinion runs rampant, and is sometimes cleverly disguised as fact. 

[tyro]

   It sounds like you have the barrel from a Remington Rolling Block military foraging gun , from your description...while it's a stout barrel with a lot of meat on it, there isn't enough meat to properly affix the ignition parts to it. Perhaps it's best to set that barrel aside for a rebuild to a .410 or 20 ga. forager and buildyour m/l from a blank or kit as the rest of the guys have suggested...when a grenade goes off in your face you won't bitch about the couple of cents LBJ's wife got for the sandbags. The plug has to go inside the breech end of the barrel to have a safe as well as pleasing lines, cobbling here would disappoint you and possibly be unsafe. Was the hammer gun you mentioned percussion or cartridge? Of course if you have two percussion locks they could be salvaged...TY

[tyro]

Gunnut,
  If that is one of the Remington barrels and not one of the German 11mm foragers, I've got a Remington R/B rifled barrel I'll swap with you if you wanted to build a R/B cartridge rifle...If the Doc' s turn me loose Monday I should be home in a couple weeks and I'll dig it out of storage for U...TY

[JCKelly]

I built my first rifle using a .44 magnum round barrel from Numrich Arms and a flint lock from Dixie. Dad got me a walnut plant. No lathe, no drill press, just old portable drill. Tapped & threaded breech end for 1/2" plug. Used a hardware bolt, fastened a tang, made from hot rolled steel, to it. Filed out sights from chunks of brass. Hung the trigger wrong.
 
All these things are Bad, Terrible, Wrong Twist, &c. Nevertheless when I shot a squirrel he dropped like a stone.

Sorry I sold it, foolishly thought it got too ugly to look at. But it went bang & hit better than my contemporary Italian gems.

Oh, yeah. Second rifle looked better. Half-stock using a nice tapered octagonal .30 cal modern barrel I found at a show, about 1962. Antique percussion lock, Dixie triggers & hardware. Drum made of cold rolled steel, I think 1018, definitely not 12L14. For Lord's sake don't use free-machining steel for your drum. Clean-out screw still comes out, as it is coated with aluminum-silicon anti sieze. Don't load much powder in a .30 cal. My new wife shot it a good deal better than I, but did not like spitting on the patches. Yes, wrong twist, no lathe just tapped breech end for I suppose a 3/8" bolt with attached tang. Terrible rifle by y'all's standards but it shoots & my associates think it looks OK.

Drums. Not a strong design. So don't load the thing like a Weatherby Magnum, and make sure the lockplate supports the drum. Also, once again, do NOT use free-machining steeel. One really can thread a bar of hot rolled steel with a die from the local hardware store.

You are new to these things? I am a crotchety old throwback, so I'd suggest you find a couple of o-l-d books like Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle , Ned Roberts and The Muzzle Loading Rifle Then and Now , Walter Cline. The all-time best book on the Kentucky rifle is The Kentucky Rifle , by Captain John G.W. Dillin.

Later I made some tolerable flint long rifles.

In my not-at-all-humble opinion best thing to do with a kit is to burn the stock & then buy a plank.

Ya know, it ain't necessary to have an entire @!*% shop to build a rifle. Small hand-held B&D jig saw has done good work for me, building several guns. Mom bought me a few chisels at an antique shop. I did have a B&D drill stand, circa 1963. Wanted better tools but was too dumb to know I couldn't build a rifle with simple INEXPENSIVE hand tols. Never used a drill press to build a rifle, even my tolerable long rifles. Eventually Wife did buy me a Sears bandsaw for Christmas.