Newbie with ?'s

[mupperm]

Hello my name is Mike and i would like to take a moment and introduce myself and ask a few questions.
first off i live in Ohio just southeast of Columbus.  i love to hunt,  trap and fish. My passion is hunting with my bow and black powder. although i use a modern inline these days i still have my T/C Hawken .45 that i put together from a kit.
well i have been kicking around the idea of getting a Squirrel rifle .32 cal percussion  so i can hunt and compete in  woods walk shoots,  at our local club!   I is also a desire of mine  to  build a  long gun in flint lock.   so I am looking for some guidance to get me started.  any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. 

I do believe i have settled on saving up and getting a kit rifle that is a replica of the Ohio Vincent 1/2 stock rifle.  in the mean time i will look around the forum and try to gather as much info as I can.

thanks for reading and eagerly awaiting suggestions and rplies

[Roger Fisher]

Hello my name is Mike and i would like to take a moment and introduce myself and ask a few questions.
first off i live in Ohio just southeast of Columbus.  i love to hunt,  trap and fish. My passion is hunting with my bow and black powder. although i use a modern inline these days i still have my T/C Hawken .45 that i put together from a kit.
well i have been kicking around the idea of getting a Squirrel rifle .32 cal percussion  so i can hunt and compete in  woods walk shoots,  at our local club!   I is also a desire of mine  to  build a  long gun in flint lock.   so I am looking for some guidance to get me started.  any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  

I do believe i have settled on saving up and getting a kit rifle that is a replica of the Ohio Vincent 1/2 stock rifle.  in the mean time i will look around the forum and try to gather as much info as I can.

thanks for reading and eagerly awaiting suggestions and rplies

Fine for tree rats; but in .32 caliber you would be giving up some if that w walk has heavy knockdowns and/or silohuettes out there a good ways, hard to tell if hit....

And, beware going the other extreme......True story and told before... Good ol Leon Buck many a moon ago was a deadly offhand shot with his half stocked .45 that traveled to the line shoots in Leon's m cycle saddle bag...  He was a winner for many years and was the guy to beat. which wasn't easy...  He used the crescent butt plate out on to his upper arm.  For some reason that I could never discover he got hold of a .58 and shot her the same way position wise. That good ol boy suffered a sizeable goose egg on his upper arm and developed a heck of a flinch.   He was no longer a winner and couldn't cure his flinch.  Last time I saw him at a shoot near Shartlesville, Pa he told me that he was having a H     of a time trying to shoot and that was the last we ever saw or heard of him...

So, beware the too large a caliber for the job.   

[Dphariss]

I would recommend a generic Kentucky full or 1/2 stock.
To be right a Vincent ranks as a complex project.
Like a Hawken and some others the devil is in the details.
So you need instruction by someone familiar with the rifle to make a decent version. Or access to some original guns to look at.
So a generic Kentucky is a great place to start. It will give you all the experience without fussing too much over the lock panel contours etc. Then sell it to recoup the parts and maybe some extra and invest in more files and parts
Then build what you REALLY want.
Dan

[WadePatton]

Welcome Mike,

How much shop space, tooling, and experience to you have?  What else have you made? What's your time-frame and budget?

The answers to those questions will help the gurus direct your efforts more accurately. Not everybody needs to be told how to drill a hole, but many do.

I, still a novice at gun making but a "handy" sort, took the advice to use a blank and am glad i did so (I had help with the RR hole and initial layout, and overall shape).  First it provides square (after planing) surfaces for references and a stable platform for drillings.  Second you have much more wiggle room to suit your ideas of fitment and maybe some error corrections.  Third-loads of scrap for working out your finish on before you start on your actual stock.

The other end of the spectrum is a "in the white" gun with all fitting done, but you do all the finishing.  That's the fastest way to get to shooting and you might still spend a great deal of time (or not) finishing it.

Metric craptonne of info here.  Great that you've narrowed your desire to a specific maker.  Learn well, the teachins is here.

Also, I'll stand right up and recommend The Gunsmith of Grenville County, Peter Alexander (Revised), that and if TOW (or anybody) sells a full-sized plan of your style-get it.

Now go wash your mouth out for mentioning that other thing on here...

+++
hey if these guys say that style is "ambitious" then you've been warned!  also, that you've "assembled a kit" and aren't shooting it raises a flag.  Tell us why you don't dearly love the T/C 45 that you mentioned?  

now seriously, find some good tastin' soap...

[mupperm]

 i am slowly putting together a wood working shop in the basement and would consider myself a novice woodworker   and have experience using tools such as drill presses and table saw band saw.  as far as time frame for a build I have none just want it to look good! 

as far as my T/C hawken kit,  it was put together back in the early 80's but there was not much to do on it but a little sanding and finish....  it has taken several deer but the accuracy i demand is not there with maxi ball  and a round ball i consider not the best choice for deer sized game! 

as far as my other gun i am  partial to ivory soap!

the kit i am considering is at track of the wolf!

[b bogart]

Welcome Mike! Check out your private messages. I too am S.E. of Columbus. Any help that I can provide I'd be happy to! You should also come out and shoot our woodswalk too!
Bruce

[WadePatton]

Hey Mike, thanks for the fills. 

Roundball killing power is not accurately represented by modern methodologies, don't discount the little ball so quickly.  Did you put a lot of effort into working up your load?  Even if you build a new, beautimous larger caliber, it won't _automatically_ shoot as good as it looks until you develop a proper load.  My point is that, barring bedding issues (and those are fixable), I'll bet that your TC can be teased into shooting tighter than you think, and even with it's "limited power" it'll whomp targets real good.  That gives you something to compete with whilst you're building your next. 

Spending time with traditionalists in the field might be a great boon to your next build as well.  (for lots of that stuff that's hard to do over these innernets)

But all this is more "shooting" discussion than building so I'll let it lie, lest we get the thread moved.

Great luck and keep readin'.

[billm]

Hi Mike, a recommendation I have is find a good builder near you(NMLRA field rep might be able to give you a name if you cant find someone off of this board) and get some help if possible or enroll in a class,and buy some books.Chances are you will build more than 1 gun  if you can get some instruction and the learning curve will be quicker and the mistakes less.Also build what you want.If it isnt 100% correct so what,Im sure it will be accurate and very rewarding to hunt with..I have found that people are more than willing to have you come over to their shop and give a hand. good luck,Bill

[mupperm]

thanks Wade.  can you suggest some reading material on the art of building your own rifle and a basic list of tools i'll be needing.  i have a bench vise and a limited set of wood chisels and block plane and i am restoring a couple stanley surface planes that will be useable in the near future!

i feel very confident that i can do a good job on a build

[WadePatton]

We were just talking 'bout that, and one of the authors chimed in:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24569.0

Gunsmith of Grenville Co is hard to beat for thoroughness. 

as far as tooling:  chisel and gouges, the more the merrier and sharp sharp-keep 'em sharp.  I just ordered a set of my own gouges as i've been using borrowed for too long.  Making (there's a section here for that) your own scrapers and cutting tools is also highly recommended.  hint: hacksaw blades and old files are dandy for such-will need heat to bend and shape.  Grinder- if you start making tools, then a bench grinder and belt-sander come in really handy.  Grinder is great for cutting metal that is hardened where hacksaw and files just wear you and them out.  Files, anyone messing with metal can never have too many files-i have three drawers of toolbox space for them (but they're all over the bench naturally).

the time sunk in making a tool should repay you in saved time whenever you use that tool and also time saved making/modding the next tool.  I get lost in that process too often. 

A big rasp for roughing out the shape if _not_ using precarve.  They say there's lots of wood to remove on a pre-carve, but I've not bee there yet.  A plank takes a lot of rasping.  Some use planes and draw knives- it's just woodworking there.

My biggest AHA moment, being _not_ previously a woodworker, has been finally learning to let each stroke of the tool across the work TELL me what the grain is doing and help me predict when it's going to change BEFORE i rip it out.  These curly buggers keep you on your toes WRT grain flow.

But there are a bunch of vastly more experienced guys than i on here.  I just type real fast... 

[mupperm]

Welcome Mike! Check out your private messages. I too am S.E. of Columbus. Any help that I can provide I'd be happy to! You should also come out and shoot our woodswalk too!
Bruce

Bruce I received your PM. and seems we are members of the same sportsman club!  so maybe i can get a little information and guidance if needed. 

[b bogart]

Sure you can Mike, I even got a book or two you can borrow. I'm no expert. I have made a good many mistakes tho, and that makes me experienced.
Lets get together sometime, and discuss a longrifle or two. Heck Mike I got a couple of Vincents 2/3s complete. Not an easy build, I concur with Dan.
Bruce

[ohidan]

Hey Mike The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle is an an excelent book with lots of illustrations and info for the gun builder. Also pick up Building Muzzle-Loaders#1&2 by Jim Turpin DVD I think these can be purchased at Track Of The Wolf or The Log Cabin Shop in Lodi,Ohio check you're PM.

[mupperm]

thanks for the information Dan.  i did get your PM and responded to it.  hopefully you get my reply! 

[mupperm]

I would recommend a generic Kentucky full or 1/2 stock.
To be right a Vincent ranks as a complex project.
Like a Hawken and some others the devil is in the details.
So you need instruction by someone familiar with the rifle to make a decent version. Or access to some original guns to look at.
So a generic Kentucky is a great place to start. It will give you all the experience without fussing too much over the lock panel contours etc. Then sell it to recoup the parts and maybe some extra and invest in more files and parts
Then build what you REALLY want.
Dan

Dan I have put together 2 kits guns the first was a CVA frontier Rifle,  shot it for a few years, then sold it to get a T/C hawken kit,   "are those two kits what you mean by generic"?  if so i am looking to up the skill level I like working on things that require detail and thought,  I am a mechanic by trade and have a small woodshop and great understanding of tools and there usage. 

[mountainman70]

Howdie,Mike,welcome to the forum.I ,too,am/was retired truck mechanic,believe me,it is some kinda change to get the fine control needed in gun building when you have been used to torqueing the cr-- outa stuff .You will manage,I am sure.Sides,I have found it has helped me get bolts and screws started in places most folk never heared of.
Another avenue you may want to explore,in building up to the full rifle build,there is a good bit of extra wood on the T/C hawken,around the cheekpiece and butt/comb,and the forend.I got back into  building on a tc hawken by reshaping these areas,and adding a small inlay.Looked good enough to a fellow that bought it.Round ball in this gun is better than beating yourself with maxis.'Sides,aint many heffa lumps in SE Ohio.Some mighty big deer tho.
Best regards and good luck.Dave in Charleston,WVa

[ohidan]

Hey Mike you're reply #14 was sent to the wrong Dan.