Indiana Sidelock Season

[Steve-In]

Indiana DNR is proposing a sidelock deer season.  No glass, plastic.
proposal...
http://www.in.gov/nrc/files/misc_fw_rules.pdf
comments... scrool down to section
http://www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm

A little late in the year.  Weather can be anywhere from nice to downright freezing.  It may interfere with ice fishing and bunny hunting, but the last 2 years the ice has not been there.  There shouldn't be much of a crowd then either.  Maybe the bucks will be out and about then too.

[Candle Snuffer]

Traditional muzzle loading firearms is what these muzzle loading seasons were intended for when they came about by those who fought hard for them, until the modern inline crowd scabbed onto them and ruined it all.  I hope it comes about.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You don't know "downright freezing"!!  I congratulate you on your new season, and wish you joy of the hunt.

[Dphariss]

I was in MLing when some of the ML seasons were set up in the 1960s. People had to do shooting to prove that a ML was accurate enough and had the necessary killing power. But the rules in the pre-plastic stock/inline action world were too lax and the traditional ML hunter was displaced by hordes of hunters with inlines bought at Wally World so they could stretch their season. This was an abomination.

To keep it safe from the modern ML wackos it must be limited to a single or double barrel MLing  firearm that is typical in design and materials of  OF THE PRE-1835 ERA shooting a single cloth patched round ball only. Blackpowder its the only propellant that is typical of the era. All complaining and foot scuffing aside anyone who wants to shoot a ML can get BP without much trouble. 777 for example, has no place in this sort of a season.
The "modern MLer" makers and the makers of their ammo will likely oppose this in some part since not allowing their guns/ bullets/sabots/powder will cut into their profits. This should not be about someone's profit. It needs to be focused on the sport of hunting as our forefathers did with a typical of the era ML firearm shot with BP and lead round balls. If the hunter does not want a stock of natural wood, does not want percussion cap or flintlock ignition and does not want to shoot BP then let him stay home. More room for the traditional ML hunter.
The DNR needs to be informed that MLs shooting elongated bullets have maximum ranges of 2500 to 3500 yards depending on the projectile and that the RB has a maximum range of about 1000 yards unless very large in diameter. The PRB is a far safer projectile in populated areas. RBs that strike the ground and ricochet seldom go more than 200 yards from the point of first impact. Bullets are not only more prone to ricochet they travel farther as well.
The insidious infiltration of "modern MLs" is the reason I would oppose a ML season in Montana unless very carefully and specifically written. Otherwise its pointless for the traditional ML hunter and the season may well become a plastic stocked, saboted bullet zoo, with the makers of modern MLing providing what funds might be needed to get it done to produce the profits they see in the project.

Dan

[bgf]

Well said, Dan.  I actually don't have anything against caplocks (traditional) or even phony powders in a pinch, but the intent of "ML'ing" seasons was to provide an opportunity to do things differently.  Flintlocks, patched ball, and open sights are the ideal embodiment of "primitive", and if it takes that much strictness in the definition to keep people honest, then I'd support it.  It does limit the number of shots you (should) take and requires more skill at actual hunting, but that is why it has its own season.

[Steve-In]

I just wanted to inform other Indiana traditional ML hunters of a new season not start a rant against inlines.  I don't really care what the guy on the next farm hunts with.
The rules for the new season will be..
(i) The primitive muzzleloader season is from the first Monday in January and continues for an
additional six (6) consecutive days. An individual must not take more than one (1) deer of either sex under this subsection and subsection 4(f) combine.
(f) During the primitive muzzleloader season established in section 4(i) of this rule, an individual
may hunt deer only with a muzzleloading long gun as follows:
(1) fire black powder or black powder substitute;
(2) have a traditional, external side-hammer design;
(3) be capable of being loaded only from the muzzle;
(4) have a caliber of at least.45;
(5) be loaded with a bullet at least four hundred forty thousandths (.440) of an inch
diameter;
(5) have an ignition system that is flintlock or caplock;
(6) use a lead round ball or lead conical bullet without plastic or other sabot;
(7) have traditional-style open sights (fixed or adjustable v-notched rear sight, buckhorn
rear sight, metallic rear peep sight, and post or blade front sight); and
(8 ) not have telescopic or other sights that incorporate glass or electronics

I like the fact the DNR even considered this addition to the seasons.  I hunt all the firearms season and the muzzleloading season.  This will give the person that chooses to hunt with a traditional ML 39 days in the field.   

[WadePatton]

High hopes for you.  Find out if  you have a sporting group that lobbies the legislature.  They are pretty good people here.  Ours is the Tennessee Wildlife Federation and i knew nothing of it until i met a member.

Then, next session-two of the three things we discussed changed...but nothing B/P.

AS for a traditional season here...Fat Chance as Knight (the inline company) started here.  And it IS ABOUT profits as much as I'd love to think it's all about pure love and nostalgia and living history (oh wait, there's an angle).  As i started to say, I'm sure the hackles would be raised at Knight if anything less than wide-open M/L arms is proposed and they'd shut it down pronto.

Power to the proposal of Hoosierland!

[Steve-In]

Wade, The DNR has an advisory board that is stacked in favor of archery, but they are slowly being pushed out.  When a proposed law gets to the public comment stage it is seldom changed.  Most opposition is coming from horn hunters that fear bucks that have dropped antlers will be harvested.  Indiana has a one antlered deer rule and a guy filling a tag on antlerless may end up with a buck.  Horn porn is taking over.  Also the DNR has figured out there will be more antlerless taken if they can spread out the season and hunters that have their deer processed aren't hit by several butcher bills at once.

[WadePatton]

Wow, I'm on the eastern edge of the "L" unit (most of middle and west TN) where we get to take 3 bucks per season and 3 does per DAY.  Used to be that there was no specific buck limit and guys who hunted all seasons might kill up to 12 or 14 legal bucks, and not one doe.  Flipping the rules really changed things, now the does get harvested, the bucks get bigger and have to compete more for the does and the unlucky guys who only get a few weekends or few days to hunt each season--can actually put some meat in the freezer,  if the shots present themselves. 

Buck contests are awful for the sport.  Any time a prize is put on a game animal, unsportsmanlike behavior is sure to ensue (not by sportsmen, but by those who pretend to be).

Yes, the advisory board, getting a word in there is where it's at. 

Luck to you.

[Blind Dog]

The only change to the proposed season is the Traditional side lock definition. No offense, but I have a couple of 18th century, round ball shooting UNDER-HAMMER rifles that by definition would not qualify.

[Curt Lyles]

Just talked with the local DNR and this proposal for the new season is not in place, yet.  Just wanted to make sure no one else misunderstands this as I did. 

[B.Habermehl]

I really hope it goes through. It sort of suprises me that it hasent been in place for some time allready as the state of Indiana is the home of the MNLRA. BJH

[Steve-In]

You need to send a comment through the link otherwise this may not happen.  I am sorry if some of you thought this was for this year as that would have been nice.  It has been my experience that when a proposal reaches this stage unless there is a lot of opposition it will happen but you still need to comment to offset the other view.

[Robin Henderson]

The only change to the proposed season is the Traditional side lock definition. No offense, but I have a couple of 18th century, round ball shooting UNDER-HAMMER rifles that by definition would not qualify.

The only requirement in Tennessee's muzzle loading season is for your firearm to be incapable of being loaded from the breech. Because of this many deer hunters are now going to the smokeless Savage or custom smokeless muzzle loaders made off of the TC encore action or converting the Remington ML to smokeless.

I find it quite humorous that if one had a replica of a flintlock Ferguson rifle they would be breaking the law if using it during Tennessee's ML deer season.....Go figure. 

[wet willy]

Good luck in Indiana! I'm in MN, which has a ML season following the firearms season by about two weeks, plenty cold and sometimes with no snow, sometimes with 24".

Legal ML can be 40 cal rifled, or 45 cal smoothbore or larger, but cannot have optical sights. That leaves you OK with all the day-glo stuff, with plastic stocked in-lines, sabots, SS fluted barrels, etc. To its credit, the MN DNR has never called this a "traditional' season. FWIW, one can use any ML (including a pistol) with any sights in the shotgun-only zones. Never did figure that one out!

I suspect money plays a big part: big box stores sell in-lines for less than what one would would pay for a traditional sidelock, even a Lyman or Thompson. The DNR wants the revenue from the license fee, the hunters like the extended season.

The no "optical sights" was a compromise regulation from those that wanted traditional side-lock only, and the 'scoped in-line folks, so in-lines OK, but only iron sights.